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Soldering xo change sound?

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Mountainman Bob View Post

    Any research I’ve done on this subject jives with the killa!

    I need some new wire, mine is a bit long in the tooth with some slight green showing up in the windings evenly up the whole length....not sure if that would just all of a sudden change sq ?

    i did roll them up and move them around a lot when I soldered......I suppose that might of loosened the oxidation to the point of change?

    what do you think of that? Any recommendations on something better than lamp wire? What I have is 12awg monster cable that is probably at least 15yo

    been looking at canare 4s11 or Belden 5000......open to suggestions, no more than $2 or $3 a foot though, don’t need much (like 10’ a side, plus 10’ for sub so 30’)
    12 or 14 gauge is overkill, rule of thumb is no more than 5% loss. Oxygen free copper zip cord, SJOOW even landscape wiring is fine.
    Here's a chart with max distances for 5% drop at different speaker impedances.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by chad1376 View Post
      Here's my theory, and it has nothing to do with solder joints. When you were initially voicing the crossover, you were fresh, feeling good, and coffee was kicking in. After re-soldering, you were maybe tired, caffeine wearing off, distracted, hungry. The sound improved after you ate, rested, got some more coffee. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I know my perception of how good or bad stuff sounds has a lot to do with my mood, mental state, or listening fatigue.
      I have found by far the biggest variable in "What we hear" or more appropriately "What we think we hear" to be the human brain.

      Mood, hunger, time of day, expectations, amount of rest, and even a sunny day will make me hear things "better" at times.
      I do not believe we have a way to eliminate the human factor from our perception of a listening event quite yet.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Mountainman Bob View Post
        Any recommendations on something better than lamp wire? What I have is 12awg monster cable that is probably at least 15yo
        been looking at canare 4s11 or Belden 5000......open to suggestions, no more than $2 or $3 a foot though, don’t need much
        Here we are trying to get you to stop drinking the kool aid, and now you want to bathe in it.

        You ignored the content of the last video I linked to, perhaps this one will better make the point.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFKT...ature=youtu.be
        www.billfitzmaurice.com
        www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
          Will two different pairs of speakers with the exact same measurements sound exactly alike or can they sound different?
          Theoretically yes, but in reality maybe. It's all dependant on how the measurements were made and how they are reported. You're dealing with an electro-mechanical device with numerous components and varying test conditions. Look at some driver reviews and look at the manufacturing variances in the test samples. Then throw some drifting test equipment and the normal accuracy of the test equipment into the mix. IEC speaker spec gives you about +- 2dB for the test equipment and the anechoic chamber, if I remember correctly, and uses 1/3 octave smoothing for some of the specs.

          So this begs the question what do you mean by "exact same measurements"?

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          • #95
            Originally posted by devnull View Post
            So this begs the question what do you mean by "exact same measurements"?
            On that subject: http://ethanwiner.com/believe.html


            www.billfitzmaurice.com
            www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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            • #96
              Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post

              Here we are trying to get you to stop drinking the kool aid, and now you want to bathe in it.

              You ignored the content of the last video I linked to, perhaps this one will better make the point.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFKT...ature=youtu.be
              I like kool aid! ; )

              I really don’t see the problem with aiming a little high.....I always lean toward better than adequate (within reason of course) and it usually pays off in some way, even if it is only in the satisfaction knowing I put the effort in.

              $2 a foot compared to half a dollar foot for 30 feet is not gonna make or break me......and the benefits may take other forms than sq such as flexibility, longevity, appearance etc

              I find a lot of people who hold their wallets close to their hearts will convince themselves there is absolutely no reason to spend an extra dime when there may in fact be several.

              Excess, overkill, too much power......these are a few of my favorite things (in my best Julie Andrews voice)

              Although Bill I certainly agree some of it goes waaaaaay to far!

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              • #97
                Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                I’m having a hard time believing that moving one inch from lp can change your 3-4K hz levels by 10db......really hard, like od on viagra hard.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by rpb View Post

                  You are assuming that the change is near the xo point. It might be out toward 15k, and still might show in a measurement. Tweeters measure differently above 10k. (below too) Take a look at the waterfall measurements of some tweeters, and compare. Perhaps different types of caps affect that waterfall. I've heard that caps can act like microphones. So, a cap inside a speaker may pick up sound that affects what is sent to the tweeter. You play your speakers loud. That may be a factor. Maybe you could experiment, and place the caps inside a box to shield them from sound.
                  My cinema 10 build is going to have external xo’s......was thinking about rack mounting them in theirs own case with a little vibration damping.

                  from what I gather microphonics are real and not a product of imagination?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Mountainman Bob View Post
                    I’m having a hard time believing that moving one inch from lp can change your 3-4K hz levels by 10db......really hard, like od on viagra hard.
                    And yet you believe that speaker wire makes a difference. You know, we keep on trying to show you the light, and your response is to put on a blindfold. Done wasting my time am I.
                    www.billfitzmaurice.com
                    www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rpb View Post

                      I like my HK amps, and hope they last. I don't consider myself to be an audiophile anymore. I've played with interconnects, and speaker wire in the past, and it was fun. Mostly, my speakers are for my home theater use. Lately I've been enjoying some you-tube music videos. Many that I like, are "Live from Daryl's house". Try "Papa Was A Rolling Stone". The sound is way different than what I remember as a kid.
                      I just checked out that live from Daryl’s house thing......quite interesting. They have a rest/club in pawling ny that has some big name shows, wish I were closer!

                      i had a hk avr500 that had the most awesome amp section......it was a little harsh when cool but if you heated it up it had an almost tube quality to it.
                      it finally gave up the ghost about a yr ago......15 yrs of some serious abuse!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                        And yet you believe that speaker wire makes a difference. You know, we keep on trying to show you the light, and your response is to put on a blindfold. Done wasting my time am I.
                        Y’all have a way of only hearing what you want to when it comes to reading my posts......I said the differences may actually more than just in the sq

                        The reason it even came up is I think my oxidized speaker wire may indeed be making a difference.....especially after I just moved it around a bunch.....right at the same time I noticed the sound differences.
                        Experience tell me that oxidized electrical components offer more resistance......and common sense tells me upsetting said oxidation may be the problem.

                        I can’t help if im that guy who asks for the ‘better’ spark plugs just cuz......knowing full well the cheapest ones will still fire the cyl.
                        most things that are manufactured have different levels of superiority......it’s up to the consumer to decide if it’s worth the extra $ or not,and to also make sure it’s not just the same item wrapped in a fancier pkg......as is many times the case.

                        This is kindly what I meant by not grasping what i’m trying to get across.....it is surely a waste of my time if you can’t even put forth the effort to understand what i’m Saying.

                        let me respond for you......’oh we understand’

                        Bill your more than welcome to ignore me

                        bob

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                        • Audiophile

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                          • Originally posted by djg View Post
                            Audiophile
                            I do have bigger ears than most.......never looked at it from that angle. lol

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                            • Originally posted by Mountainman Bob View Post

                              I’m having a hard time believing that moving one inch from lp can change your 3-4K hz levels by 10db......really hard, like od on viagra hard.
                              It is very easy to measure the effect. Your response speaks volumes.
                              Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                              Comment


                              • Well I’m not sure how that was setup but my lp has a sweet spot much wider than 1”

                                i fully understand that sound changes as one moves about the room but that has to be some kinda extraordinary situation......I certainly could notice a 10db null, as I have and it was less than 10db and I measured it. (Playing around with the bbc dip)

                                It seems to me that over realiance on measuring could also have a negative affect on the actual sound. kindly redundant to argue what techniques sound better to me because if I started believing everyone that told me it made no difference i would lose all of my imaginary upgrades! lol

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