Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Still trying to find that "ideal" 2.1 amplifier...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Still trying to find that "ideal" 2.1 amplifier...

    "Ideal" meaning...

    1. Variable HP filter on the main speaker channels (preferably inset or internal, to stop some idiot from playing with it post-installation)
    2. Variable LP filter on the subwoofer channel (ditto)
    3. Subwoofer level control
    4. At least 50Wpc into the main speakers and 100W to the subwoofer
    5. Class D (of course)

    Has anyone caught sight of this unicorn? The Dayton 2.1 amp comes so close (I actually have one of previous models), but does NOT have the variable HP filter, which makes it unsuitable for the situation I need to address.
    Brian Steele
    www.diysubwoofers.org

  • #2
    Funny you're bringing this up right now. I'm going to order the DTA-2.1BT2 tomorrow and was just re-reading that previous thread discussing the original. It appears that the V2 has a fixed highpass, but I can't find what frequency it's at. Hopefully it is in a range that can match up with the variable lowpass (50-120Hz). The features you're describing are really necessary for a proper 2.1 implementation and car audio amps have been doing this (and cheaply) for decades! Not sure why there's not a single amp on the market that duplicates that functionality.

    Dan
    _____________________________
    Tall Boys
    NRNP Computer Sub
    The Boxers
    The Hurricanes
    The Baronettes
    Conneccentric
    UX3

    Comment


    • #3
      I think I read it is a 6db, 200hz highpass utlizing capacitors.

      I too wonder why diy is so far behind on useful amps.
      Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Dayton SPA250DSP SUB amp combined with a plain 2 channel chip amp does all you want. I have 2. One is not built, the 8" sub kit, the other is in my PC sound 2.1 along with a SMSL 2 channel.

        Dayton Audio SPA250DSP 250W Subwoofer Plate Amplifier with DSP

        https://www.parts-express.com/Displa...029&zpid=41471

        New 2.1 - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum

        Comment


        • #5
          Hard to imagine why this is such a difficult nut to crack. I have one of the first generation little Dayton BT 2.1, and it's a neat piece of equipment but I just ignore the .1 and use it strictly as a stereo amp. I did try it with a band pass woofer and it worked okay, but that setup works better with just a stereo amp anyway. No surprise there, since that's how it was designed to work, with a couple of small satellites.

          Another thing that seems painfully obvious to me is an RF volume control that uses a simple little coin cell remote like a car clicker. There are lots of IR remote volume controls out there, many intended as add-ons for DIY projects, and they are fine if you are sitting on your a$$ in front of the device you want to control. I just want to have a couple of volume buttons, a mute button, and maybe an on-off function. It seems absurdly obvious.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
            I think I read it is a 6db, 200hz highpass utlizing capacitors.

            I too wonder why diy is so far behind on useful amps.
            It is really baffling to me. PE basically caters to DIYers. This is not a huge ask, and can be done by two board-mounted pots (adjusted by screwdriver) and the appropriate on-board circuitry. It might even be possible to implement this using the existing op-amps.

            I do NOT want these kind of adjustments available via knobs on the front panel - that's just asking for trouble.

            Brian Steele
            www.diysubwoofers.org

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by djg View Post
              The Dayton SPA250DSP SUB amp combined with a plain 2 channel chip amp does all you want.
              Nope, because that's two separate amps, two separate power feeds. Not what I want.
              Brian Steele
              www.diysubwoofers.org

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Liberator of Magic Smoke View Post
                Hard to imagine why this is such a difficult nut to crack. I have one of the first generation little Dayton BT 2.1, and it's a neat piece of equipment but I just ignore the .1 and use it strictly as a stereo amp. I did try it with a band pass woofer and it worked okay, but that setup works better with just a stereo amp anyway. No surprise there, since that's how it was designed to work, with a couple of small satellites.
                That's how I'm using the my DTA2.1 - satellites and a bandpass amp. It actually sounded great with my "Enigma" bandpass subwoofer, but I think that was primarily because that particular 4th order BP subwoofer has very low out of band "noise" coming out of the vent. The only downside was that the amp was running out of steam before the subwoofer ran out of usable excursion.

                Brian Steele
                www.diysubwoofers.org

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've pretty much decided a MiniDSP kit + Class D amp boards and power supplies cobbled together in a chassis is the only way to go for this.
                  Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
                  Wogg Music
                  Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brian Steele View Post
                    "Ideal" meaning...

                    1. Variable HP filter on the main speaker channels (preferably inset or internal, to stop some idiot from playing with it post-installation)
                    2. Variable LP filter on the subwoofer channel (ditto)
                    3. Subwoofer level control
                    4. At least 50Wpc into the main speakers and 100W to the subwoofer
                    5. Class D (of course)

                    Has anyone caught sight of this unicorn? The Dayton 2.1 amp comes so close (I actually have one of previous models), but does NOT have the variable HP filter, which makes it unsuitable for the situation I need to address.
                    I have never understood why this is a nonexistent piece of hardware either. I have considered the MiniDSP solution as well. Also car amps. It seems like this is a pretty basic design that would attract high sales. But I have never seen one. I would even settle for just a 2.1 amp (3 channels) with single variable 2-way 24db filter (with a volume for each band) but I cant seem to find that either.
                    BSME
                    Kannapolis NC

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I tried to find the thread that DanP mentioned, it's hard for me to find for some reason... I had a heck of a time finding it last time I tried...
                      That was a great thread that shows what this community can do when it needs a solution to a problem... Mike worded it like a movie trailer... kind of cool. I did the mod he outlined on 3 of those original 2.1 amps so far and they all took to it fine despite my somewhat ham-fisted..... well, fists. I think I settled on mid 70 Hz low pass cutoff, which was just a bit lower than Kevin K's original needs. It seems to work well with smaller speakers and subs. Mike worked out a few options for crossover frequencies based on his reverse engineering of the circuit. It really has plenty of power as well.

                      Remember what happened when we spoke up after the first one came out? They had V2 in the works within just a month or two if I'm not mistaken.

                      Maybe if we can get together a list of "minimum" features we want, the PE product development team can make it happen.

                      I'll echo Brian's list:

                      1. Variable HP filter on the main speaker channels (preferably inset or internal, to stop some idiot from playing with it post-installation)
                      2. Variable LP filter on the subwoofer channel (ditto)
                      3. Subwoofer level control
                      4. At least 50Wpc into the main speakers and 100W to the subwoofer
                      5. Class D (of course)


                      Actually, I think all that's missing is #1 on the list above.

                      I'll add my 'amen' to Liberator's ask for a small remote. I'd prefer the silicone button-version with it's nicer feel....they feel like a regular remote, just tinier,

                      6. basic remote functions: Volume, mute, on/off, input select.

                      *Possibly a beefier power supply if it helps get a little more out of it wattage-wise.

                      I see Brian's point on the frequency adjustability... Personally, I'd be okay with the knobs anywhere as long as it has the adjustability. Maybe use the same phillips screwdriver pot as is one the current one, just inset it so it's flush with the front panel so you can't adjust with fingers. That might work okay.

                      Personally, this is all I'd really need at this point. I know there are wifi enabled units, and other features you could add, but that would turn this into something else and bring the price up as well, I'd be okay with features 1-6 for me.

                      The current one is around $86. I can see these features bringing up the cost to around $100 in a similar shape and size. Would we be willing to pay up for that? I personally would for $98.44 but not a penny more!

                      TomZ
                      *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                      *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF *Cello's Speaker Project Page

                      *Building the "Micro-B 2.1 Plate Amplifier -- Part 1 * Part 2 * Part 3 * Part 4 * * Part 5 'Review' * -- Assembly Instructions PDF

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
                        I see Brian's point on the frequency adjustability... Personally, I'd be okay with the knobs anywhere as long as it has the adjustability. Maybe use the same phillips screwdriver pot as is one the current one, just inset it so it's flush with the front panel so you can't adjust with fingers. That might work okay.
                        That should work fine. on-board pots with access points at the bottom of the amp would work well too - the idea here being "set and forget", not "leave accessible for some idiot to change by mistake".


                        Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
                        The current one is around $86. I can see these features bringing up the cost to around $100 in a similar shape and size. Would we be willing to pay up for that? I personally would for $98.44 but not a penny more!
                        I'll be willing to pay $100 for the addition of independent filter adjustment as previously stated, and perhaps a beefier power supply.

                        Double the power output (100x2 for the satellites, and 200W for the sub), and I'll pay double too .


                        Brian Steele
                        www.diysubwoofers.org

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DanP View Post
                          Funny you're bringing this up right now. I'm going to order the DTA-2.1BT2 tomorrow and was just re-reading that previous thread discussing the original. It appears that the V2 has a fixed highpass, but I can't find what frequency it's at. Hopefully it is in a range that can match up with the variable lowpass (50-120Hz). The features you're describing are really necessary for a proper 2.1 implementation and car audio amps have been doing this (and cheaply) for decades! Not sure why there's not a single amp on the market that duplicates that functionality.

                          Dan
                          Hey mattp doesn't the DTA-2.1BT2 have a full range sat. section?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just pulled the trigger. Hopefully Johnny's not right about the passive 6dB/octave HP at 200Hz. It will be tough to integrate the 50 - 120Hz LP if he is. I'd be ok with just the addition of #1 above and I don't care where the pots are located. Remote would be nice, but I'm only interested in desktop use, so no remote is fine too. Beefier power supply? The Meanwell 24V 350W unit is on clearance right now for $36 so upgrading isn't an issue. Really just need a viable HP.

                            On the other hand, kudos to PE for listening and responding to get one step closer to the elusive (even if for unknown reasons) perfect 2.1 amp!

                            Dan
                            _____________________________
                            Tall Boys
                            NRNP Computer Sub
                            The Boxers
                            The Hurricanes
                            The Baronettes
                            Conneccentric
                            UX3

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DanP View Post
                              I just pulled the trigger. Hopefully Johnny's not right about the passive 6dB/octave HP at 200Hz. It will be tough to integrate the 50 - 120Hz LP if he is. I'd be ok with just the addition of #1 above and I don't care where the pots are located. Remote would be nice, but I'm only interested in desktop use, so no remote is fine too. Beefier power supply? The Meanwell 24V 350W unit is on clearance right now for $36 so upgrading isn't an issue. Really just need a viable HP.

                              On the other hand, kudos to PE for listening and responding to get one step closer to the elusive (even if for unknown reasons) perfect 2.1 amp!

                              Dan
                              When I investigated this amp, it was the sub's fixed LP filter's freq. that was the issue. I never looked at the L-R section. Dang.

                              However, as with all TPA3116 amps, there is an inherent 1st order HP on all channels. It's a function of the decoupling capacitors on the chip's inputs in combination with the chip's input impedance (input impedance depends on chip gain setting).

                              If you wanted a fixed 1st order HP (Fc of your choice) you'd need to replace two SMD caps, one for each channel (L & R). San's amp, I don't have the info to say which caps or values.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X