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Midwest Audio Fest

It’s that time audio enthusiasts! Registration for the 2019 Speaker Design Competition is now open! Visit midwestaudiofest.com for details and to list your speaker project. We are excited to see all returning participants, and look forward to meeting some new designers this year, as well! Be sure your plans include a visit to the Parts Express Tent Sale for the lowest prices of the year, and the Audio Swap Meet where you can buy and trade with other audio fans. We hope to see you this summer! Vivian and Jill
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Where is all the inDIYana stuff? (Critiques & pics)

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  • #16
    There were so many great sounding speakers this year, they were all interesting to see and hear. It seems that a 5 part or less crossover is not a major limitation after all, I thought that ALL of the theme entries had a very nice sound.

    I was surprised by some of the smaller sized entries that had a very big sound.

    Comment


    • #17
      A few comments about my comments. If we had more time with these speakers we'd probably change our minds. The room was generous with the bass reinforcement.

      The demo track made a difference. The demo tracks came from DIY NY and Iowa 2018. Thanks to Jason P and Bryan K for getting these demos to me and the original producers JeffFree69 and ???. The Iowa track was more challenging for the second round.

      Group 1. Picture attached. In this group I liked Ed's Seas tweeter and Dan's Peerless tweeter. DaveFred Cherry bombs were good but seemed lacking in the mids. Dan won, but I like Ed's Silver Flute mids a bit more. It sucks going first.

      Group 2. Picture attached. Crap, everything sounded good here. I preferred my voicing and the Peerless tweeter. Bill's won. I'm sure Bill has a better picture.

      Group 3. Picture attached. I scored every speaker identically. I liked Keith's RS paper mids. Paul's speaker had a good tweeter and imaged well. The take away for me was how much more I preferred the RST28A in Nick's over the "F" in Keith's. Nick won this group.
      John H

      Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

      Comment


      • #18
        Group 4 picture attached. Ben’s Peerless DA25 tweeter sounded very good but there was more detail in Curt’s 32 mm Peerless Corundum tweeter. Curt’s was probably a tilted up/ hot but that seemed to work in this room. Billet’s speaker was good, but the tweeter fell down in comparison to this group. Curt won this group.

        Group 5 picture attached. Jay’s mids were a bit laid back. Duane’s little 4 inchers held their own. Everyone seemed to be waiting for them to bottom out. Brad’s and Andrew’s seemed a bit hot and thin in the bass. Rasmus won this group I thought the Peerless tweeter and TB subwoofer bass were very good.

        Round 2 Picture attached of all the group winners. It was nice to do this after lunch. The Iowa 2018 track was used, and both Dan’s and Bill’s seemed to have issues with resonance/ cone control on the first cut. After that mostly personal preference; Rasmus slate speaker seem to do everything well. Curt’s speaker still had the big detailed sound, Nick’s had the best mid in the group. Rasmus won the final round.

        Thanks again to Ben and Chuck for organizing and running.
        John H

        Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

        Comment


        • #19
          Craig,
          I started reading Stereophile back in '89. At that time the magazine was about the physical size of a Reader's Digest. I quickly began learning some of those basic terms describing sound, but just as quickly started thinking that Stereophile, Absolute Sound and other similar mags were kind of full of it. I cut off my subscription back in the mid 90's. Nowadays i just grab one off the rack at Barnes and Noble and read for free and don't feel guilty for doing it. I still think they're mostly full of it and snooty.

          Comment


          • #20
            After looking at the pics, it seems like there's a bit of an obsession with waveguides. I find them visually unappealing especially when used with smallish midbass'. Some of them look larger than the midbass. An otherwise decent looking speaker with a waveguide becomes less attractive to my eyes. Not to dis anyone at all.

            So my question is, are waveguides really that great?

            I doubt I'll ever use one. Maybe I'm too set in my ways, but I simply like the look of a 2-way with a good mibass sitting underneath a 104mm Scandinavian tweeter.

            Comment


            • #21
              I subscribe to both Stereophile and Absolute Sound and have for years with both magazines having their pros and cons. IMO the best audio magazine ever was Audio. It had both subjective and objective information from reviewers, but the reviewers were much more down to earth and realistic, and the objective tests had just enough information to be useful. Reviewers in general often get carried away, with some of their comments simply being outlandish in describing what they heard because it's simply impossible to have occurred.
              Paul

              Originally posted by Waboo View Post

              Craig,
              I started reading Stereophile back in '89. At that time the magazine was about the physical size of a Reader's Digest. I quickly began learning some of those basic terms describing sound, but just as quickly started thinking that Stereophile, Absolute Sound and other similar mags were kind of full of it. I cut off my subscription back in the mid 90's. Nowadays i just grab one off the rack at Barnes and Noble and read for free and don't feel guilty for doing it. I still think they're mostly full of it and snooty.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Waboo View Post

                Craig,
                I started reading Stereophile back in '89. At that time the magazine was about the physical size of a Reader's Digest. I quickly began learning some of those basic terms describing sound, but just as quickly started thinking that Stereophile, Absolute Sound and other similar mags were kind of full of it. I cut off my subscription back in the mid 90's. Nowadays i just grab one off the rack at Barnes and Noble and read for free and don't feel guilty for doing it. I still think they're mostly full of it and snooty.
                All I am doing is providing a source of definitions for audiophile terms.
                craigk

                " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Waboo View Post
                  After looking at the pics, it seems like there's a bit of an obsession with waveguides. I find them visually unappealing especially when used with smallish midbass'. Some of them look larger than the midbass. An otherwise decent looking speaker with a waveguide becomes less attractive to my eyes. Not to dis anyone at all.

                  So my question is, are waveguides really that great?

                  I doubt I'll ever use one. Maybe I'm too set in my ways, but I simply like the look of a 2-way with a good mibass sitting underneath a 104mm Scandinavian tweeter.
                  There were an awful lot of them weren't there. My theory is for this particular challenge a wave guide was a good way to lower the crossover point and get a better match between woofer and tweeter without requiring more parts in the crossover. They show up in studio monitors all the time for directivity control and matching to a large mid bass, so they're definitely a useful tool.

                  In general though I'm with you.. If / when I do a wave guide it will be carved into a thick baffle for a seamless finish and only a 1" dome showing of the rear mounted tweeter.
                  Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
                  Wogg Music
                  Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                    I subscribe to both Stereophile and Absolute Sound and have for years with both magazines having their pros and cons. IMO the best audio magazine ever was Audio. It had both subjective and objective information from reviewers, but the reviewers were much more down to earth and realistic, and the objective tests had just enough information to be useful. Reviewers in general often get carried away, with some of their comments simply being outlandish in describing what they heard because it's simply impossible to have occurred.
                    Paul


                    I miss those classic days. I also enjoyed Audio, as well as Stereo Review because they seemed more down to earth. Julian Hirsch was great. I had many subscription in those days in addition to Stereophile, including Audio, Stereo Review, Car Audio and Car Stereo Review. And occasionally I'd buy Absolute Sound at the snooty stereo shop in downtown New London, CT. The really funny thing is that of all of those mags, only the snooty ones survived; Stereophile and Absolute Sound. Although I think that Stereo Review might have morphed into some home theater magazine(can't remember).

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by craigk View Post

                      All I am doing is providing a source of definitions for audiophile terms.
                      I know, Craig. Hopefully you didn't think I was trying to bust your balls whatsoever, because I wasn't. Sorry if it appeared that way to you.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I, too, subscribed to Stereo Review and liked it, and I also believe you're correct in it morphing into a home theater mag, and in fact, my memory tells me the same conglomeration bought both Audio and Stereo Review and eventually killed off both of them without keeping any of their good qualities.
                        Paul

                        Originally posted by Waboo View Post

                        I miss those classic days. I also enjoyed Audio, as well as Stereo Review because they seemed more down to earth. Julian Hirsch was great. I had many subscription in those days in addition to Stereophile, including Audio, Stereo Review, Car Audio and Car Stereo Review. And occasionally I'd buy Absolute Sound at the snooty stereo shop in downtown New London, CT. The really funny thing is that of all of those mags, only the snooty ones survived; Stereophile and Absolute Sound. Although I think that Stereo Review might have morphed into some home theater magazine(can't remember).

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by wogg View Post

                          There were an awful lot of them weren't there. My theory is for this particular challenge a wave guide was a good way to lower the crossover point and get a better match between woofer and tweeter without requiring more parts in the crossover. They show up in studio monitors all the time for directivity control and matching to a large mid bass, so they're definitely a useful tool.

                          In general though I'm with you.. If / when I do a wave guide it will be carved into a thick baffle for a seamless finish and only a 1" dome showing of the rear mounted tweeter.
                          After reading what you said about lower crossover point, I'm surprised we're not seeing them used with maybe some 8" 2-way designs.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                            I, too, subscribed to Stereo Review and liked it, and I also believe you're correct in it morphing into a home theater mag, and in fact, my memory tells me the same conglomeration bought both Audio and Stereo Review and eventually killed off both of them without keeping any of their good qualities.
                            Paul
                            That sounds like something conglomerates do. They probably bought both for the sole purpose in shutting them down and starting something new in their place to fit with the current trends and times. Wonder how that worked out for them.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Thanks to Wolf, Chuck M, John H, Shaun, Greg and all others that helped put on another great InDIYana event. This was my 6th trip to Ft Wayne and I really enjoyed listening to all the new speakers and seeing everyone again. Congrats to Rasmus on his "B2B" speakers, which won the bare minimum competition. Incredible bass and sound from such a small package!

                              Also, congrats to Bill Waslo for receiving this year's lifetime achievement award. I use his software products every day.

                              Visual highlights for me were the Cherry Bombs (David E.), the Cornetta (Paul K.), the Culminate (Matt), the Enthraals (Javad), the Helios (Jeff B), the Jintani (Javad), the Moon Drops (Nick S), the Mystiques (Dan N.), the Rivalries (Javad), the Root River Rustics (Ed P.), the Defiants (Keith E.), the Honeycombs (Nick S.), the Ying & Yang (Ashlea S.), the Zingers (Wolf), etc., etc. The list goes on and on. Everywhere I looked, furniture grade craftsmanship and polished high gloss finishes!

                              I was walking around the back room snapping photos when I stumbled onto a crunched up looking cardboard box marked "free." See pic. To my surprize, it contained a vintage (circa 1962) Claritone AM/FM receiver. Thanks, John! Tube compliment is 6AQ8 (FM tuning/oscillator tube), 6BA6 (3), 6AL5, 6BE6, 6CA4 (power supply rectifier), 12AX7 (power amp driver tube), 6BQ5 (2) (power output tubes). The 6BQ5's drive two small output transformers that look like about 5 watts per channel. John said that this unit was pulled out of an old living room console. Should be an interesting restoration project. John mentioned that he had previously discussed this radio with Craig S. who was also interested in it. So, Craig, if you are still interested, I will give you first dibs and bring it along to Iowa. Otherwise, my plan will be to find a schematic and do a complete restoration on it. When done, I'll bring it to a future event for show and tell.

                              Enjoyed having several technical discussions on sound quality, stereo imaging, and RTA measurement techniques with the experts. Ken Rhodes brought his new a/b switching console, that, I understand, will be offered as a kit soon my Meniscus. (I have to get one of these!!) Also picked up several new ideas on how to improve my design and measurement techniques from Dan N., John H., and Craig K. Look forward to attending again next year.

                              I see John posted pics for the theme entries, so I will post a few non-theme pics shortly. When I get time, I'll put together a 12x12 event montage showing the winner in the center and all entrants around the edges and post it later. I'll use the same basic design as last year.
                              SideTowers: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...corundum-build
                              Totally Flat: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...5-totally-flat
                              Plumber's Delight: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...notech-winners
                              Linehopper: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...Esoteric-build

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by wogg View Post

                                There were an awful lot of them weren't there. My theory is for this particular challenge a wave guide was a good way to lower the crossover point and get a better match between woofer and tweeter without requiring more parts in the crossover. They show up in studio monitors all the time for directivity control and matching to a large mid bass, so they're definitely a useful tool.

                                In general though I'm with you.. If / when I do a wave guide it will be carved into a thick baffle for a seamless finish and only a 1" dome showing of the rear mounted tweeter.
                                Yeah- I'm not big on them either. It's easier to get honk from a horn or waveguide, even though it's able to be remedied. Rather than risk the problem occurrence, I tend to avoid them despite their apparent advantages. Looks are not my cup of tea either. If I did one- it would look like a Zingali.

                                Later,
                                Wolf
                                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                                *InDIYana event website*

                                Photobucket pages:
                                http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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