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Knowing how many watts a speaker needs to sound it's best?

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  • #16
    Considering how much of a modern car's function is tied into the infotainment center, I wouldn't touch it in fear of making the car useless, or worse, unreliable.

    How do they install aftermarket head units in modern cars without messing with the car's internal functions?

    I have considered buying a head unit with all the modern connections; bluetooth, usb, etc., routing that to a pair of minidsp or dayton dsp, then stepping up the 12v power supply to power several of those tiny little Sure t-amp boards, and using some of the stockpile of drivers laying around here for some decent mobile tuneage. It is an old truck with a basic radio so no compatibility issues.
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

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    • #17
      Here you go - a recent thread on a forum I use - Why do you need a very powerful amp?

      A real world example for me was when I had one of those little, low powered t-amps (12w per channel IIRC?) driving my 8", sealed box 2-way speakers (about 85db 1mtr 2.83v) at deafening levels. We'd been listening most of the night with a top-of-the-range, 200w Nad amplifier, and decided to see how the little amp could cope. I was surprised to say the least. The Nad did go a bit louder with authority, but at normal to relatively loud levels there wasn't much in it (we were sat in quite a nearfield position though - (about 2mtrs away).
      A comment today that someone made about my 50W Krell, he said it was the best amp Krell ever made but that doesn't make it a top amp because it doesn't...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by fatmarley View Post
        Here you go - a recent thread on a forum I use - Why do you need a very powerful amp?

        A real world example for me was when I had one of those little, low powered t-amps (12w per channel IIRC?) driving my 8", sealed box 2-way speakers (about 85db 1mtr 2.83v) at deafening levels. We'd been listening most of the night with a top-of-the-range, 200w Nad amplifier, and decided to see how the little amp could cope. I was surprised to say the least. The Nad did go a bit louder with authority, but at normal to relatively loud levels there wasn't much in it (we were sat in quite a nearfield position though - (about 2mtrs away).
        KRELL are wonderful amps! Do you know why they named them KRELL, the reason for the name?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by AEIOU View Post

          KRELL are wonderful amps! Do you know why they named them KRELL, the reason for the name?
          No I don't. Why did they?

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          • #20
            I don't know if it's just about watts, as I find the same speakers at the same volume level - well, as far as I can tell - can sound different depending on the amplifier. So I'm assuming that the same amount of power is going to the speaker from each amp, although I'm happy to be proved wrong of course.

            We have two Yamaha receivers, an old stereo RX596 and a newer 5.1 RX367. I've hooked both of them up to our Slapshots MTMs and Classix IIs, and at the same apparent volume levels, the older product seems to have a fuller sound with more 'something or other'. I wasn't terribly scientific about this, all it could show is that different amps/receivers sound different. The RX 596 has 80 Watts RMS/ch, the RX367 is specified as having 100 watts RMS. But the older amp sounds better, even at over 20 years old.

            Geoff

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Kornbread View Post
              How do they install aftermarket head units in modern cars without messing with the car's internal functions?
              If you own a BMW you don't. Everything is controlled by the car's computer, what they call iDrive. There are no aftermarket HUs that will work with it. There are exactly two plug and play upgrade amps, and their EQ functions can't be controlled by the iDrive. I expect the situation is similar with Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti and so forth.

              www.billfitzmaurice.com
              www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Kornbread View Post
                Considering how much of a modern car's function is tied into the infotainment center, I wouldn't touch it in fear of making the car useless, or worse, unreliable.

                How do they install aftermarket head units in modern cars without messing with the car's internal functions?

                I have considered buying a head unit with all the modern connections; bluetooth, usb, etc., routing that to a pair of minidsp or dayton dsp, then stepping up the 12v power supply to power several of those tiny little Sure t-amp boards, and using some of the stockpile of drivers laying around here for some decent mobile tuneage. It is an old truck with a basic radio so no compatibility issues.
                I have an 2012 Outback "premium" sub model and I'm lucky that it does not have one of those LCD head units that control everything. I only need to retain steering wheel functions which is easy enough. However, my stock head unit really does not sound all that bad (it's made by Clarion) and it may just be best to invest in some amps.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                  If you own a BMW you don't. Everything is controlled by the car's computer, what they call iDrive. There are no aftermarket HUs that will work with it. There are exactly two plug and play upgrade amps, and their EQ functions can't be controlled by the iDrive. I expect the situation is similar with Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti and so forth.
                  Yep. I can see it snuffing out the aftermarket stereo entirely one day. I don't know that the older cars would support that segment if it comes to that.

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                  • #24
                    A lot of after market auto accessories will go away, like rear view cameras and navigation, which will become standard equipment, all tied into the car's computer. Garmin and Tom-Tom saw the writing on the wall, they've made deals as OEM nav suppliers.
                    www.billfitzmaurice.com
                    www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fatmarley View Post

                      No I don't. Why did they?
                      It's a reference to the sci-fi movie Forbidden Planet. The "Krell" were a mysterious technologically-advanced alien race of the past on some fictional planet.
                      Technology in the service of art, for the life of the music.

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                      • #26
                        Don't call me Shirley.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Geoff Millar View Post
                          I don't know if it's just about watts, as I find the same speakers at the same volume level - well, as far as I can tell - can sound different depending on the amplifier. So I'm assuming that the same amount of power is going to the speaker from each amp, although I'm happy to be proved wrong of course.

                          We have two Yamaha receivers, an old stereo RX596 and a newer 5.1 RX367. I've hooked both of them up to our Slapshots MTMs and Classix IIs, and at the same apparent volume levels, the older product seems to have a fuller sound with more 'something or other'. I wasn't terribly scientific about this, all it could show is that different amps/receivers sound different. The RX 596 has 80 Watts RMS/ch, the RX367 is specified as having 100 watts RMS. But the older amp sounds better, even at over 20 years old.

                          Geoff
                          Careful Geoff, everyone knows watts is watts and that's all there is to it.

                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            It says it on the back of the speaker or the manufacturers manual on knowing how many watts a speaker can take to sound its best.....If a speaker is rated at 50 watts minimum and you are using a 25 watt amp it might not be enough power to sound its best.....If a speaker is rated at 25 watts max and you are using a 100 watt amp although it could sound good you could also blow it at higher volumes when playing it for prolong periods of time.

                            Most speakers have a minimum and maximum wattage rating like 50watts RMS and 100 watts max.....Even amps have a minimum and maximum watts rating....Then it also has to do with a speakers sensitivity as higher sensitivity means easier to drive with less watts while lower sensitivity needs more watts.

                            More watts usually mean the ability to play louder with less distortion and to drive less sensitive speakers.

                            Not sure why this is so complicated or even something worth to ponder on.

                            Not sure of how much watts attribute to a amp/receiver sounding different but I would assume there are way more factors then just wattage......My HK receiver is rated at 50 watts while my Yamaha is rated at 100 watts but my HK sounds fuller and more robust then the Yamaha with more watts.

                            Plus I also read in audiophile magazines where one says TRUE wattage rating and not the exaggerated watts some manufacturers like to use to boost there sales which most likely is the maximum wattage opposed to the RMS watt?

                            Don't really know its just my opinion. LOL

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by djg View Post
                              Don't call me Shirley.
                              Kind of weird seeing Leslie Nielsen playing a serious role!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Rory Buszka View Post

                                It's a reference to the sci-fi movie Forbidden Planet. The "Krell" were a mysterious technologically-advanced alien race of the past on some fictional planet.
                                The planet Altair IV from my favorite Sci-Fi movie.

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