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  • Tarkus DIY Build Need More Technical Information

    Hello Guys,

    I am sure you hate new write ups from new members but I am new to DIY and have only built the Amiga Towers and one of Troels' designs the 3WC Bookshelf, so I thought Ill introduce myself. I tend to spend most of my time on Ethan Winer's forum and keen to join this one.

    I have always been interested in a large affordable 3 way speaker. My 3WC is a midsize bookshelf with 22W/8534G00 12W/8524G00 D2608/913000 Scanspeak drivers. Although, there slightly above average drivers and the Tarkus uses drivers which are less expensive, I am really keen on a mid woofer that is at least 6 inches and still potentially getting an upgrade.

    Also, I have been fascinated why Greek music always sounded better in my Toyota Camry car sound system(Glass reflections could also have something to do with it as well) and according to Paul Carmody's write up on the Tarkus it seems paper cones sound better for guitar. So that Bouzukia probably needs a paper cone according to Paul.

    I have 2 12inch sub woofers with the Dayton DC305 driver in a sealed compartment with about .7 QTC and its hooked up with a Marchand XM66 variable crossover, this turns my sound system into something else can not do without it even when playing the 3WC with its 8 inch woofer.

    I am happy for any other recommendations but if I can get some answers to some of the questions below it will help me decide if the Tarkus is my best option.

    1. I am not into expensive audio hype but curious if the chosen drivers for the Tarkus are really a downgrade from the 3WC Bookshelf? I mean are they really entry level drivers that might be not be good enough considering I have built two descent DIY speakers previously?

    2. The write up mentions that the Tarkus is voiced for Rock, and curious if that is just the voicing? Why I ask is that I love techno and crave transients. Does the Tarkus perhaps have slow transients because of it being voiced for rock?

    3. I will definitely add my 2 subs to the set up, maybe crossover it at 60hz maybe 70hz. Now, I don't know the quality difference between the 62 litre Peerless 10inch vs my Dayton 12 inch(40 litres). I am just curious if the transients will match here?

    4. Paul mentions polyfill for the mid cab. Personally I am a big fan of damping with bitumen pads and then felt. I am worried that the design might have been made on using pollyfill to help with enlarging the mid cab litrage. I am not a fan of polyfill as it really deadens the sound, how much transients would I loose if i decide to use only a small amount of polyfill.(obviously a sealed cabinet with less poly fill will lower QTC)

    5. I am also curious how time alignment has been handled on the Tarkus? If anyone can chime in here.

    6. Lastly, if we decide to flush mount the mid and large woofer would that be okay?

    Kindest Regards




  • #2
    Paul C. seems to design very nice sounding speakers with cheap drivers. At least in the U.S., the Tarkus is very inexpensive.
    If you build it like the original it will sound like the original.
    The Peerless sub and mid drivers in the Tarkus have a rounded over edge that favors surface mount as mentioned in the designer's write up.
    It's DIY, you may do anything you wish.

    Here's some other designs and design collections you might like. Apologies if they are not new to you.

    Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5

    diVine Audio

    Speaker Design Works

    Comment


    • #3
      Flush/surface the drivers will likely not matter much in difference, but the stamped frames of the SLS woofers and SDS midbasses were designed for surface mounting and their frames are really thin.

      And no- A sealed enclosure without polyfill/damping with have a higher Qtc than one with polyfill/damping. Also- Adding fill does not increase the seen volume of the box, it just changes the Qtc of the box. Your experience sounds like you used too much polyfill in the past for midranges. This will stifle the mids if packed in too heavily.

      Later,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #4
        Just wondering what you find lacking in the 3WC. I assume you have it installed in a bookshelf configuration like shown on Troels's website. With your subs handling the lowest frequencies I imagine the biggest difference you'll notice is the voicing between Paul and Troels, not the driver differences.
        "Everything is nothing without a high sound quality." (Sure Electronics)

        Comment


        • #5
          Just wondering what you find lacking in the 3WC.
          To be honest, overall sounds great. The only thing that is lacking is the 4 inch that is playing the bulk of the frequency range(down to 350hz) it just feels like its small. The voicing is completely different, and the 3WC with its 3 way is definitely more open, but the Amiga is a warmer sound which i prefer although its hard to beat the opennes of the 3 way. Hence why I am curious how a 3 way system from Paul will sound. Also, the concept of the guitar sounding good on a system definitely entices me...

          Flush/surface the drivers will likely not matter much in difference, but the stamped frames of the SLS woofers and SDS midbasses were designed for surface mounting and their frames are really thin.
          Thanks about the surface mounting!

          And no- A sealed enclosure without polyfill/damping with have a higher Qtc than one with polyfill/damping. Also- Adding fill does not increase the seen volume of the box, it just changes the Qtc of the box.
          I think I got this the other way around, I am scared if I don't fill much with polyfill(cause I am not a fan) I am going to loose the lower QTC. But I suppose a small amount will be okay and wont have much effect.

          Your experience sounds like you used too much polyfill in the past for midranges
          My experience was with my subs, and yes to much deadened the sound while just a small amount was great.


          Here's some other designs and design collections you might like. Apologies if they are not new to you.
          Great, thanks. There are two designs there that were interesting the Statements and the Canaiolo although more expensive they are what I am looking for. I am curious how they compare in general to the my Troel 3 way or the Tarkus?






          Comment


          • #6
            The Canaiolos use the old RS28A tweeters that are no longer available. The new RST28A is not a drop in replacement ant thus wouldn't work without a new crossover. For awhile old stock of RS28As were available on eBay and other places but I have not seen any for a long time.

            Not sure you will find any direct comparisons to the Tarkus or Troel's, but you can find tons of reviews on the Statements and Statements II if you search. My guess is a lot of it comes down to preference for sound and looks as these are all good, highly reviewed, speakers. And since you wont' be able to audition them, the best things is to search for various reviews and see what pros and cons catch your attention.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have experience with the tweeters and the woofers from the Tarkus speakers and I count myself a fan of both. I have heard the tweeters in a MTM paired with Vifa P17's and liked them very much. I own 4 SLS 10's and have used them in an open baffle configuration and had I not run across a good deal on some 12" SLS's I'd still be using them. I haven't heard the complete Tarkus build but I'd like to. From the armchair critiquing I'm doing here I think that they will need some serious power to sound their best.
              I have looked long and hard at that 6" Peerless driver. It's a compellingly affordable driver. I know you think it screams "cheap" but a competent driver (regardless of price) with a well executed crossover in a well thought out design will surprise you. The components don't have to be expensive, they just need to be thoughtfully and expertly implemented.

              Comment


              • #8
                Note that if you are considering the Statements, that design has an open back mid. It has a tunnel for the back of the midrange that opens so that sound from the mid comes out the back of the speaker in addition to the front. As a result, the designer recommends at least 18" from the back of the speaker to the wall behind it and that you don't have any large furniture in between the 2 speakers. From the reviews I've read it is an excellent speaker but definitely needs more room to sound its best.

                Comment


                • #9
                  For now, I am trying to understand concepts more than anything else to help better my overall knowledge in the DIY sphere, and also going for the long haul in researching for the next best speaker. My current two, Amiga and 3WC are not bad at all and in order to get an upgrade i need to find a great design and to beef up the size and I feel in order to at least get the improvement I'm looking for, I need to go with the statements perhaps statements 2. This is due to its double woofer and double mid plus I can still use my subs to handle the lower frequencies with the 10 inches on the Statements playing more open. With the Tarkus there will be no point in crossing over the massive Tarkus sub with smaller 12 inches that I have got in a 40 litre. Appreciate the note for the approximate 1 meter gap between the wall and speaker Ill take that in consideration.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Your suspicion about sound differences between differently sized midranges is spot on. Small midranges can sound great but you may prefer something bigger.

                    If you are looking for a design which uses a bigger midrange, very high end but reasonably priced, I'd look at the finalist speakers by Curt Campbell. These use a 150mm (~5") paper cone woofer in an open back configuration. The rest of the drivers have a very high price/performance ratio, similar to the 3w/classic with the scanspeak discovery drivers.

                    I would skip the Tarkus, personally. Statements or Finalists would probably give you what you're looking for.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Trdat View Post
                      For now, I am trying to understand concepts more than anything else to help better my overall knowledge in the DIY sphere, and also going for the long haul in researching for the next best speaker. My current two, Amiga and 3WC are not bad at all and in order to get an upgrade i need to find a great design and to beef up the size and I feel in order to at least get the improvement I'm looking for, I need to go with the statements perhaps statements 2. This is due to its double woofer and double mid plus I can still use my subs to handle the lower frequencies with the 10 inches on the Statements playing more open. With the Tarkus there will be no point in crossing over the massive Tarkus sub with smaller 12 inches that I have got in a 40 litre. Appreciate the note for the approximate 1 meter gap between the wall and speaker Ill take that in consideration.
                      The Statement's use the RS225-8 which is an 8 inch woofer not a 10 inch.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ...and the Finalist tweeters are NLA.
                        Wolf
                        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                        *InDIYana event website*

                        Photobucket pages:
                        http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          John Krutke (Zaph) end it all 3 way, kit available elsewhere. If you want big.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sehlin Sound Solutions - Indium 7

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The precursor to the Finalists is the Statement Monitor, a 3 way with a 7" woofer. Drivers still available, and the design can be built near wall, far wall or both with a switch.

                              Statements_Monitor

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