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Tarkus speakers - woofer

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  • #16
    Post #44 in Wolf's Zinger thread has his recommended parts. Better caps, larger wire gauge coil, a 33 ohm resistor you didn't list. Also you'll need some #8 screws and some binding posts or terminal cups. And a BIG bag of WalMart poly fil.

    Parts Express #8 x 3/4" Deep Thread Pan Head Screws Black 100 Pcs.

    Binding Posts & Plates in the Speaker Components Department at Parts Express | 309

    Terminal Plates & Cups in the Speaker Components Department at Parts Express | 321

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    • #17
      Thanks for the followup, djg! I'll be busy with family stuff the next few days...

      bgymr, I would recommend not using the NPE caps for the sake of reliability, value tolerance, and getting closer to the results I got. They also tend to dry out over time where a poly/film cap won't. The pair currently can be built for less than $200 in parts.

      If you would like me to draw up a 1.5ft^3 vented box version plan, I can also do that. I've been meaning to anyway.
      Let me know if you have any more questions,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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      • #18
        Wolf, you should be getting a commission from PE. I just bought the tweeters and the subs this morning. Didn't want to miss the tweeters being on sale. I have some Visaton 4992 2.2 mh inductors, but I'm guessing they won't work. A tower version of this would be great.

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        • #19
          I noticed the heavy gauge woofer inductor is out of stock. Wolf winds his own coils, so an exact match is impossible. I actually used the 18 Ga.coil, it seems ok to me. I would say that the Audyn caps, especially in the tweeter circuit, are important for reasons Wolf stated.

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          • #20
            I'm pretty pumped, just put the order in.

            I'll post my box design tomorrow to get input.

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            • #21
              Ok, so I have this design in mind. I will make the woofer go over the tweeter like in your build, I like that look. The 30" high is the same as my cabinet that houses my records and receiver. I think it will look cool.

              Click image for larger version

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              • #22
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                • #23
                  Most typically, the "goal" is to have the tweeter near "seated ear height" (if you'll be sitting). DIY almost always places function before "form".

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                  • #24
                    The overlapping drivers are more than "a look". It's done to minimize center to center driver distance with a larger than usual woofer. And ear height tweeter is best. You could lean the cab back to aim the tweeters up towards your head, make them taller or just do what you like. It's DIY.

                    Suggest you reread Wolf's initial thread posts, there's really a lot of info in them. I read them several times. Is that width internal or external? Your dimensions don't jive with the panel layout pictured.

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                    • #25
                      bgymr- There is a lot of discrepancy in what you've posted and what I stated in the thread. You will need a 3" round port minimum in the 1.5ft^3 box alignment. That is 7 in^2 of port area. The tuning should be 30 Hz, which yields a 9 7/8" long port. You'll need roughly 2 pounds of fill per cab, and YOU MUST BRACE THEM. Your cabinets will ring and vibrate without bracing the walls. I tied in all 6 walls into the bracing scheme when I built the stand-mounts, including to top and bottom of the woofer on the baffle. djg is right about the overlap being important. As I said, you can likely lose an inch of width in baffle and be okay.

                      Here's my impression of how the floor-stander should look, 38" H x 9" W x 8" D:

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                      Hope you find this useful,
                      Wolf

                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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                      • #26
                        Gents thanks for the input. I just got my tracking number!

                        My limited knowledge of making speaker boxes is making subwoofer boxes for cars. I make them using a tool called "torres". That is where that printout came from. There are some rules of thumb when designing and one of them is about 7in2 of port per cubic foot of volume. Of course the more area the longer port you need to create the same resistance. But the bigger ports have less port noise. Like I said, this is all my limited knowledge, and on top of that it's based on producing frequencies in less than 100hz, so I will listen to you guys for the design. Yes, I planned for bracing the four sides, the top and bottom I didn't think would need it. I also didn't account for the woofer displacement in my volume calcs.

                        Couple questions about the above design:
                        Are you making them 38" just to get the tweeter up to sitting ear level? Or are there other reasons? I would really prefer to keep them lower and deeper because these will be in my living room where I get much less say in what is placed in that room than say...my basement. (aesthetics). I plan on building a speaker stand for them to point them up.

                        The 7in2 of port you are suggesting, should I expect port noise from that? Or is that a term that doesn't even make sense for these types of designs?

                        I read and re-read your design page. Some of the jargon is beyond me, but what I really need help with is the resistance of this speaker. The little I understand of your graphs, it seems like the tweeter operates at 6 ohms, and the woofer a bit lower than that. I don't see a graph for them together (does that make sense even?). I would like to know what the final ohms are of this speaker. I am going to run it with an old school pioneer SX 650 at first until I fix my other receiver. The pioneer is only rated for 8 ohms and I would hate to ruin a part of history.

                        Thank you

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                        • #27
                          The port area has more to do with the Xmax of the driver under a power level at a certain output than the box volume. The volume of the box does not dictate the area, just the length to tune to the frequency in the box being used. Too large of a port can have a more pronounced port resonance and create a dip in the response. It can also allow more midrange leakage and not sound like it should.

                          The 38" is not even height optimal, as it's still below the ear height of the listener. In this particular case, if you sit far enough way, this will matter less. 38" is my standard ear-height, and the tweeter is actually ~4.75" below that level. The reason for the height is for most applications, and how I would build them, not necessarily how you will adapt the design to your living room. You are welcome to make them shorter with an integrated angle at the bass to not require stands, but make sure the volume and the width as well as driver distance from the front-top edge are built verbatim. Like I said 9-10" internal width is fine, and depth can be made larger.

                          The Zinger design uses a DVC (8 ohms per coil) woofer, which nets 4 ohms impedance in the woofer range. With the added DCR from the lowpass coil, you're closer to 5 ohms nominal. In the tweeter range, it's closer to 12-15 ohms impedance or above from 700Hz and up, due to the xover and resistors applied. The Zmin in the impedance is about 3 ohms just above resonance, so 3.5 ohms or so is the minimum impedance of the woofer range. As long as you don't crank on the amp (Trust me- you'll want to!), you'll likely be fine in the 5-10W average usage range. There is a plot of the system impedance in the xover simulation images.

                          Later,
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            bgymr - I'd add to what Wolf is saying about the box size. His specifics matter - baffle width matters for baffle step loss and diffraction, tweeter height matters because high frequencies are more directional and you want the tweeter near ear level, tweeter placement from the top matters for diffraction that he has taken into account in the crossover. Total net internal volume and port tuning are part of the design in terms of the crossover and low-frequency response.

                            However you do have some leeway - if a narrower speaker fits in your room, Wolf mentioned in post #10 you could get away with one inch narrower. One thing that strikes me in Wolf's dimensions is that it is wider than it is deep. That might be a good thing depending on your room, but would look weird to me. His dimensions are targeting the internal volume you need to be at 1.5 cubic feet, but you could build them deeper (for appearances only), and seal the extra area off so as not to affect the internal volume.

                            The system impedance is in the last graph of post #5 in his Zingers thread and you can see it dip down below 5 ohms. According to a Google search the Pioneer SX650 produces 35 watts RMS stereo into 8 ohms but has a minimum impedance rating of 4 ohms so you should be fine.

                            (Edit: Wolf's original Zingers were 10" internal and the floor-standers above are 9" internal, so I think he has already incorporated the 1" narrower option that he said would be okay.)
                            Last edited by a4eaudio; 08-06-2019, 05:59 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Back in the day everyone put their Advent speakers on the floor. We didn't know any better. You can sacrifice sonic perfection for domestic bliss, we just want you to know what's best. These things will be pretty darn heavy, as far as moving them around.

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                              • #30
                                Funny you bring the Advents up.

                                They are the reason I'm building the Zingers. I restored a set of large advents with the fried egg tweeter, used them for a while and sold them on CL. I called the kid who bought them from me and he doesn't want to sell them back. After I sold the advents I made my first set of speakers from PE, they sound really good, but have minimal bass. I wanted to have a set of speakers that played receivers straight from the amp with no crossovers so I built it with dayton full range 4"ish driver. I'll keep them but I want bigger music back in the living room.

                                Previously I've had a pair of Cerwin Vega AT8 that I restored. I loved the idea of the speaker but it sounded terrible to me. When I read wolfs "8" in a 2-way, which is seldom done well, and even more often unsuccessfully" I thought back to those speakers and it kind of explains it. I think it's a good fit for the music I listen to if done right.

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