What are your tips on bass in small rooms?

[Unbiasedsound]

I think I'll quote Unbiasedsound in response to this..."SMDH"..."LOL"

If I wanted to quote djg response to this I would just post a meme. LOL

[bradley.s]

This is one of the reasons I don't reply to Bradlys post anymore. You can have it. LOL

I apologize for saying your speakers probably suck.

[Unbiasedsound]

I apologize for saying your speakers probably suck.

I apologize for saying you aint accomplish shizit.

[bradley.s]

I apologize for saying you aint accomplish shizit.

So we're cool then. Great. Hey, I found something that might interest you from Toole's book.

[Unbiasedsound]

So we're cool then. Great. Hey, I found something that might interest you from Toole's book.

If you say so. SMDH Sorry, I am not interested in tooles book but since you are go for it. LMAO

[andy19191]

This is one of the reasons I don't reply to Bradlys post anymore.

I guess it is the nature of forums that you get all sorts of people with all sorts of interests posting. I have no idea what the OP is trying to get out of his posts in this thread but it clearly isn't a conventional discussion to gather knowledge about the interesting and challenging topic of how to get a reasonable room response in the home at low frequencies.

In a neighbouring thread we have Jeff B who has contributed a great deal to the hobby and used to be a regular here but appears unhappy with place and seems to have moved elsewhere. The forum does seem to be losing momentum a bit these days which is a shame.

[Unbiasedsound]

I guess it is the nature of forums that you get all sorts of people with all sorts of interests posting. I have no idea what the OP is trying to get out of his posts in this thread but it clearly isn't a conventional discussion to gather knowledge about the interesting and challenging topic of how to get a reasonable room response in the home at low frequencies.

In a neighbouring thread we have Jeff B who has contributed a great deal to the hobby and used to be a regular here but appears unhappy with place and seems to have moved elsewhere. The forum does seem to be losing momentum a bit these days which is a shame.

What I question about Bradlys post is his intentions. He asks questions and when we try to help him he turns around and stabs us in the back as if he knows more and or knows better.

When I posted the Gr Research of Danny vids I didn't know there was a toxic feud going on between Danny and Jeff B UNTILL Jeff B brought it to every ones attention. Now even that post where Jeff called Danny toxic has been DELETED most likely by a mod as if he never said any of those things. Anyone who read this thread knows for a FACT Jeff called Danny toxic and personally attacked him. I guess mods think that if the post is deleted that it never happened. SMDH Worst part is Danny aint even here to defend himself. Not to mention that my thread is not about Dannys personal matters but his tech talk videos. Its seems any post about Jeff B will get deleted including this one. I have no problems with Jeff B. just the mods who erase post based on favoritism.

[andy19191]

What I question about Bradlys post is his intentions. He asks questions and when we try to help him he turns around and stabs us in the back as if he knows more and or knows better.

But why does he do this? What is he trying to achieve by posting in this way? It seems to be an interesting example of something but I don't know what. I guess I might be simply too old to fully grasp social interaction on the web.

When I posted the Gr Research of Danny vids I didn't know there was a toxic feud going on between Danny and Jeff B UNTILL Jeff B brought it to every ones attention.

This I understand a bit more. We have a very wide range in knowledge and understanding in this hobby from believers in science at one end to believers in magic pixie dust at the other. The two cannot effectively communicate with each other because the base on which belief is built is different. They can rub along largely ignoring each other until something perceived as crossing the line occurs which can then stick more than it would if the disagreement was with someone of your own kind that you can communicate with.

[bradley.s]

Me: There's science here that says low frequencies are modal in small rooms, how do you deal with it?

Bro-Audio Dudes: Pfft, science. You just don't understand. We're the experts on all things audio.

Me: No, really. Here's the links to the research and work done by the largest audio company in the world to fix it.

Bro-Audio Dudes: You refuse to learn. We tried to help you then you stabbed us in the back!

[billfitzmaurice]

I've seen this before, here and elsewhere. Newbie reads a few books or articles and since it was unfamiliar to him before doing so thinks posting his newfound (to him) information will enlighten the rest of us. It doesn't occur to him that there are plenty of regulars here with experience equal to the sources he's quoting.

[bradley.s]

Bill. You led me astray, dude. You got me thinking there was such a thing as cabin gain in small rooms then Earl Geddes said that just ain't the truth. Why are you spreading misinformation?

[wogg]

Preface: I'm no expert on the science involved in this, I'd much rather talk electronics engineering. Acoustics and borderline fluid dynamics or whatever is going on are interesting, but I've not invested the time.

Content: Very, very few people are going to spend the time doing any level of modal analysis in a small room. If you're a bonafide acoustics engineer, your services are more likely to be contracted for larger venues and what not.

So what happens:
General folk get a cute speaker and place it where it looks nice, usually not even paying attention to stereo imaging.
Folks that hang out here will place for stereo imaging as best as possible, and move around with trial and error for low frequency response, add EQ for some minimal effect (noting room modes, standing waves, cancellations cannot be EQ'd out)

Most stop there and enjoy their systems just fine.

Some will go further and add bass traps, continue to mess with placement, or possibly even design a purpose built room. That's more common if you're into music production instead of or in addition to Hifi.

So in that context... My answer to your question is experiment and do your best. Use subs, multiples if possible to cover the bottom couple octaves evenly. Do the best you can with the gap up to the room frequency. That's the end.... the rest is an intellectual exercise that, while interesting, isn't worth bruising egos or getting angry about.

[billfitzmaurice]

If Earl said that he's wrong. Cabin Gain is well documented. For instance:
https://legacy.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=2

I stopped reading anything from Earl years ago, when it became apparent to me that his opinions were anything but objective.

[andy19191]

Content: Very, very few people are going to spend the time doing any level of modal analysis in a small room. If you're a bonafide acoustics engineer, your services are more likely to be contracted for larger venues and what not.

I have recently moved house from a large living room to a small awkwardly shaped one. Modal analysis is the most practical way to work towards an OK room response (the best one can hope for in a small badly shaped room) because there are a lot of modes to bring under control and a lot of options to bring about that control. To do this reasonably well experimentally would take forever and involve a lot of bashing of wood. You are right that most DIY speaker folk don't have the knowledge to do this but those that have a day job as engineers are likely to have. That is a small but not negligible number. Adequate software is freely available on the web but engineers may also have access to good commercial software at work which may be available for their hobby interests.

So what happens:

What happens is starting to change. If you are interested in sound quality and have competent audibly neutral electronics, competent cabinet, competent speaker drivers with sufficient surface area to cleanly deliver SPL operating over frequency passbands that are not too wide then, excluding the source, what dominates sound quality is the radiation pattern of the speaker drivers and their interaction with the room. Interest in this type of thing is growing as expressed by more interest in speaker directivity, DSP, room treatment and, despite the OP, threads like this in forums.

[a4eaudio]

To do this reasonably well experimentally would take forever and involve a lot of bashing of wood. You are right that most DIY speaker folk don't have the knowledge to do this but those that have a day job as engineers are likely to have.

Andy, can you clarify? I thought the typical approach would be something like using REW and a measurement mic. Are you saying that to do THIS right would take forever, or something else?