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War of the 10" Monster SQ bass drivers!

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  • War of the 10" Monster SQ bass drivers!

    Okay, okay, a bit misleading since I haven't done the actual "showdown", but here is what I have planned:


    New 10" showdown. This time featuring some higher-powered 10" bass drivers. Mainly regarded as subs, but should be good to a few hundred Hz.

    Requisites:
    • 10" nominal size bass drivers aimed at Sound Quality.
    • dual 2Ω or single 4Ω
    • VC Diameter ≥ 2.5"
    • RMS power ≥ 500W
    • Vas ≤ 1.2ish ft³
    • Qts ≤ 0.5ish
    • X-max ≥ 12mm
    • low-distortion motors
    • "clean" FR out to ~500Hz (will likely H.P. somewhere in the 100Hz-200Hz range)
    • < $300 each driver

    Candidates thus far:
    • Dayton Ultimax UM10-22 (already have)
    • Dayton Reference 10" HO SVC-4
    • CSS SDX10 (the coil is smaller than my own requisite, but it's my f***ing showdown, so I'll allow it! )
    • Adire Audio Brahma D2 (should be here within a couple weeks, got them on sale)
    • Morel Ultimate UW1058 (bought used)
    • JBL W10GTi
    Application/Alignment criteria:
    • Bass-reflex via Passive Radiators
    • F3 in the 38-40 Hz range
    • Sensitivity will be low given a woofer's traditional Fs and my requisite low Vas, but they will be implemented in multiples, as such:
      • Ultimax UM10-22's: FOUR drivers in each enclosure
      • Reference 10 HO: FOUR drivers in each enclosure
      • CSS SDX: 2 to 3 drivers to a box (Qts/Vas combo is a bit larger than I'd like, but still within limits)
      • Adire Audio Brahma 10D2: TWO drivers to a box (too monstrous to mount more than 2, lol)
      • (I haven't specified the Morel's nor the JBLs quantities because I only have two W10GTi's, and the Morel's are too rare to find used at all and I only have one, but I'm still gonna test them simply because I already have them)
    • Maximum enclosure volume = 1.6ish ft³
    • They will be independently powered (separately) from the midbass-midrange-treble via multi-kW amplifier(s), so BSC can be built into the design via more power input compared to the other drivers.
    • Tuning in the final implementation will be via four 10" Earthquake PR's (two on each side of the enclosure, roughly mid-30's Hz)
    • Once again, my main factor will be harmonic distortion since I'm limited to my Omnimic.
    • They will not be tested in multiples, but rather I will extrapolate/interpolate the data to skew them in the direction that pertains to my own project/specification.













    Very similar frames between the top-half of the W10GTi and the CSS SDX10













    Stay tuned!

  • #2
    Interesting. What's the end game? An old school design like a JBL, or...?
    Francis

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    • #3
      Final implementation for these will be the "woofer" section of a high-powered 3-way design I have conjured up for myself. Midbass-midrange will be a high powered 10" pro-audio midbass, top-end will be a horn-loaded AMT.

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      • #4
        In for this one... Have you considered the Sundown Audio SD-3 10" driver... matches up well with your specs and is about $150...

        Link: https://store.soundsolutionsaudio.co...att-sd-series/

        No financial tie here, just know that these subs are pretty awesome for the price...

        ×



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        • #5
          Originally posted by m3gunner View Post
          In for this one... Have you considered the Sundown Audio SD-3 10" driver... matches up well with your specs and is about $150...

          Link: https://store.soundsolutionsaudio.co...att-sd-series/

          No financial tie here, just know that these subs are pretty awesome for the price...

          ×


          I had at one point, but lots of people were having issues with them, so I dunno if Sundown rectified any issues.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by guitar maestro View Post
            Final implementation for these will be the "woofer" section of a high-powered 3-way design I have conjured up for myself. Midbass-midrange will be a high powered 10" pro-audio midbass, top-end will be a horn-loaded AMT.
            OK. I've got to ask.....

            1. Active or passive crossovers? I'm going to guess actives.
            2. Why a 10" midbass? Power handling? SPL? Wouldn't a 8" give you a little bit more wiggle room on the top end for the transition to the tweeter?
            3. Why a AMT instead of a compression driver?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by devnull View Post

              OK. I've got to ask.....

              1. Active or passive crossovers? I'm going to guess actives.
              2. Why a 10" midbass? Power handling? SPL? Wouldn't a 8" give you a little bit more wiggle room on the top end for the transition to the tweeter?
              3. Why a AMT instead of a compression driver?
              1. Passive
              2. both power handling and SPL. Yes. I already have a great (bought) 3-way with a superb 8" midbass, but I still want more out of it.
              3. Much lower distortion, and it performs great IMO. I have pioneered a modification that can be done to any AMT diaphragm which drastically cuts the already low distortion by a large margin. I still have some more tests to run, but I will also be showcasing my "War of the AMT tweeters" thread as well, where I test out a bunch of AMT's that I have here.

              Comment


              • #8
                That's an awful lot of work, and money, to find out something that can be derived from the specs. If the driver xmax was measured via Klippel that's where THD is 10%. It's easy enough to then model drivers to find which has the highest maximum SPL at 10% THD.
                www.billfitzmaurice.com
                www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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                • #9
                  You said it Bill, "if". Besides, no driver spec will spit out harmonic distortion vs frequency. I don't mind the learning curve, as this is not some project that I'm making for anyone other than myself, and thankfully, money is plentiful, for the scope of this kind of project. I'm not saying I own a Lamborghini, but what I'm saying is I'd now rather spend a few thousand dollars doing driver testing/experimenting than going to Las Vegas and losing it to the casino's like I used to, lol.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by guitar maestro View Post
                    Mainly regarded as subs, but should be good to a few hundred Hz.
                    The driver's rated Inductance at 1kHz (Le) and the driver's impedance curve (which can then be used to derive its semi-inductance parameters) should be a big factor in your choices then.

                    I've been eyeing those Dayton RS drivers for a long while, because of their low Inductance ratings. Plus, they're gorgeous .

                    Brian Steele
                    www.diysubwoofers.org

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brian Steele View Post

                      The driver's rated Inductance at 1kHz (Le) and the driver's impedance curve (which can then be used to derive its semi-inductance parameters) should be a big factor in your choices then.

                      I've been eyeing those Dayton RS drivers for a long while, because of their low Inductance ratings. Plus, they're gorgeous .
                      True, but that is why I have OmniMic. To validate everything that needs to be validated into a realistic model, as much as I possibly can.

                      Wanna see low inductance?.

                      W10GTi. Coils in parallel.





                      Since they will be HPF'd somewhere between 100-200Hz, they really only need to be flat a little past that, but obviously the flatter the better. The truth is in the measurements (if I do them right, lol).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by guitar maestro View Post
                        You said it Bill, "if". Besides, no driver spec will spit out harmonic distortion vs frequency.
                        No driver spec can either, because the distortion it produces will also be impacted by the alignment you use it in, AND the physical construction and layout of the box you put it in.
                        Brian Steele
                        www.diysubwoofers.org

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by guitar maestro View Post
                          Wanna see low inductance?.

                          W10GTi. Coils in parallel.
                          Re and Le are usually measured with the coils in series, but still, that's a pretty low inductance. What do the semi-inductance parameters look like?
                          Brian Steele
                          www.diysubwoofers.org

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                          • #14
                            I don't know enough about the semi-inductance parameters to answer that question.

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                            • #15
                              I thought you wanted an active/DSP xover!? I see you posted as passive above. Why the change?

                              Later,
                              Wolf
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