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  • Duane Brown "Dayton 4" Deluxe version

    At InDIYana 2019, I was tremendously impressed with Duane Brown's entry the "Dayton 4", not just because of the phenomoninal bass it had for such a small speaker but due to its overall performance. When I got home, with the help of a forum resident I was able to find Duane's published project details here:https://duanebrowndesigns.blogspot.c...akers.html?m=1 I built a pair for myself and was able to listen to them with a wide variety of music. I was even more impressed than at INDY where they were played briefly in a pretty large room. Long story short, I felt they were a truly exceptional design, not just for their size and price, but for their overall sound quality.
    I commented on this to Craig K in a phone conversation and he said he felt the same way and suggested that the design seemed good enough to him to justify building a stouter, slightly deeper cabinet with higher grade crossover components. Well I did and I was literally surprised at the results. I thought I was going to have to listen to a variety of music carefully to discern some subtle differences (if any). But no, from the very first song the differences were obvious, more detail, even better soundstaging, deeper tighter bass and richer harmonics. I have thought that changes of the type I made would be swamped by the overall character of the drivers and crossover, but in this case the difference was immediately clear. I think Duane underestimated the fundamental excellence of his design. I can not recommend too highly building either his original or the slightly bigger, heavier and more expensive "deluxe" version.
    I know that, " without pictures it didn't happen" so I have included some. The basic changes that were made were to: 1. Change the cabinet material to 3/4" baltic birch. 2. Change the cabinet outside dimensions to 8.5 tall X 6.5 wide X 10.5 deep. 3. Line back panel of cabinet with 1.5" sonic barrier and the side walls with .5 sonic barrier. 4. Replace all caps with good quality polypropolene versions. 5. Change 1.25 diameter port length to 5.5 inches for slightly tighter bass. Please see the link to Duane's design for crossover diagram.
    That is it. In my version the tweeter is centered 43mm down from the top and the woofer129 mm down. (for sensitive measurements I like to use mm s) Tip. The ND 16 fits best if you drill it's hole with a 32mm Forstner bit.
    I don't know how to intersperse text with pictures so be aware that those attached are simply to show some of the details of the components and cabinets, as well as comparison shots of Duane's original design and the bigger version.

    Best regards,

    Jay
    Last edited by Drjay; 10-15-2019, 07:37 AM.

  • #2
    Thanks for sharing your version! I used Duane's design for a car stereo boom box I put together. It sounds pretty good even though it's altered from the original design. I haven't heard the original but I imagine it would sound much better than my boom box.
    Click image for larger version

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    • #3
      Thanks for posting this, Jay. I have been looking for Duane's design since I have a pair of the Dayton 4" woofers as a door prize. Your improvements are worth considering, though I like the smaller size for desktop use.

      I am presently enjoying Dayton's MK402 BTX as desktop speakers. Nice size, excellent sound with minor EQ in the computer. Now I can build my own

      Marv

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by marvin View Post
        Thanks for posting this, Jay. I have been looking for Duane's design since I have a pair of the Dayton 4" woofers as a door prize. Your improvements are worth considering, though I like the smaller size for desktop use.

        I am presently enjoying Dayton's MK402 BTX as desktop speakers. Nice size, excellent sound with minor EQ in the computer. Now I can build my own

        Marv
        These speakers are really impressive for price and size.
        craigk

        " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Drjay View Post
          At InDIYana 2019, I was tremendously impressed with Duane Brown's entry the "Dayton 4", not just because of the phenomoninal bass it had for such a small speaker but due to its overall performance. When I got home, with the help of a forum resident I was able to find Duane's published project details here:https://duanebrowndesigns.blogspot.c...akers.html?m=1 I built a pair for myself and was able to listen to them with a wide variety of music. I was even more impressed than at INDY where they were played briefly in a pretty large room. Long story short, I felt they were a truly exceptional design, not just for their size and price, but for their overall sound quality.
          I commented on this to Craig K in a phone conversation and he said he felt the same way and suggested that the design seemed good enough to him to justify building a stouter, slightly deeper cabinet with higher grade crossover components. Well I did and I was literally surprised at the results. I thought I was going to have to listen to a variety of music carefully to discern some subtle differences (if any). But no, from the very first song the differences were obvious, more detail, even better soundstaging, deeper tighter bass and richer harmonics. I have thought that changes of the type I made would be swamped by the overall character of the drivers and crossover, but in this case the difference was immediately clear. I think Duane underestimated the fundamental excellence of his design. I can not recommend too highly building either his original or the slightly bigger, heavier and more expensive "deluxe" version.
          I know that, " without pictures it didn't happen" so I have included some. The basic changes that were made were to: 1. Change the cabinet material to 3/4" baltic birch. 2. Change the cabinet outside dimensions to 8.5 tall X 6.5 wide X 10.5 deep. 3. Line back panel of cabinet with 1.5" sonic barrier and the side walls with .5 sonic barrier. 4. Replace all caps with good quality polypropolene versions. 5. Change 1.25 diameter port length to 5.5 inches for slightly tighter bass. Please see the link to Duane's design for crossover diagram.
          That is it. In my version the tweeter is centered 43mm down from the top and the woofer129 mm down. (for sensitive measurements I like to use mm s) Tip. The ND 16 fits best if you drill it's hole with a 32mm Forstner bit.
          I don't know how to intersperse text with pictures so be aware that those attached are simply to show some of the details of the components and cabinets, as well as comparison shots of Duane's original design and the bigger version.

          Best regards,

          Jay
          Since you changed most everything else, why don't you design a x-over for it, rename it, and take credit for the design? Maybe use a few extra parts to notch some peaks, etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            I personally feel that Duane's original is an exceptional design and that its "magic" lies in the driver combination, driver placement and crossover design. All I did was build a bit bigger, stouter cabinet, upgrade the crossover components, shorten the port 1/2" and damp the interior a bit more. I am still struggling to learn X-sim and have never designed even the most basic crossover. I am pretty much a builder not a designer. If I were Duane and someone did what I did, but also changed the crossover a little bit and called it a new design I would be upset. His design is pretty special and I encourage folks to build it, or if OK with a bit more size and cost build the slightly altered version.

            Comment


            • #7
              That is a killer design. Duane nailed it. I was lucky enough to talk to Duane for a little bit after they played. Great guy great speakers. I think it's safe to say that these were underestamated by most of those at Indy (myself included). What they did was impressive.

              Comment


              • #8
                No doubt- those smoked a lot for less.
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not trying to make waves at all, but think of all the RS28 / RS180 designs that were built.
                  Last edited by rpb; 10-20-2019, 02:04 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                    No doubt- those smoked a lot for less.
                    Wolf
                    See what you've done? Now you're making me want to spend $32 to see how they might sound with the H26TG45-06 tweeters I have!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rpb View Post
                      Not trying to make waves at all, but think of all the RS28 / RS180 designs that were built.
                      I was going to post the same point, that if he WANTED to play around with the crossover, that at that point it is NOT the same design and that there are many speakers out there with the same drivers but different box models and crossovers that are different designs. And I was going to use the same example because I know of 3 or more designs using the RS28/FS180. BUT, Duane's design sounded good so unless he just wants to practice building his own it makes perfect sense just to use Duane's xo and enjoy the music.

                      I'm currently designing something with the 8 ohm version of the woofer and a different tweeter. Given the price of the woofers, you should buy some and make something with those tweeters.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                        No doubt- those smoked a lot for less.
                        Wolf
                        i agree, these are really nice sounding speakers
                        craigk

                        " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Drjay, could you measure both versions fpr us? Very curious how the two compair when it comes to the squiggles.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Guys,
                            Here is the FR of Duane's original in red and the "deluxe'" in green. The conditions and volume level were identical so I am not sure why they do not overlay more exactly. I'll leave it to more experienced folks to think about that. My room eq wizard setup is delightfully consistant when I retest a speaker, maybe the differences are dueto driver variation or the 1/2" increase in cabinet width. I am not set up to do reliable off axis FR plots but don't hear any brightness. I suspect that the high frequency rise drops off off axis (or it could be because I cant hear above 11K).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rpb View Post

                              Since you changed most everything else, why don't you design a x-over for it, rename it, and take credit for the design? Maybe use a few extra parts to notch some peaks, etc.
                              I guess I don't see what you're saying. He upgraded the quality of the caps but didn't change their values or any other in the crossover. Why add a few extra parts to notch out anything when he loves how they sound and so do multiple other people like Craig and Wolf.
                              Craig

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