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Preparing to build my first speakers and have some questions

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  • GoodMusic
    replied
    Originally posted by ontariomaximus View Post
    There is a really good thread at diysound. Uses the 8424 and LOVES it with the RS225 crossed about 600hz. I just bought a pair of the blue Thiel 8424's myself.
    He's using it without a tweeter and FR is crazy good almost to 20K! Wow. As for the Thiel version, note that T/S params are just a smidge different from the 8424. I'll be getting a CLIO soon and will figure out exactly what they are. The RS225 look pretty much like what I'm looking for. I've narrowed my choices down to them and one other woofer.

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  • Kornbread
    replied
    In a wmtmw, I have the rs225p crossed at 250hz. to a pair of rs150p, which hand off around 2.6k to an xt25tg. That's a bit high for the xt25tg, but that's where it sounded best to my ears. It's an active design so things can be changed without all the fuss of a passive crossover. No complaints in regards to good clean plentiful bass from a quad of rs225. The neighbors on the other hand ...

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  • ontariomaximus
    replied
    There is a really good thread at diysound. Uses the 8424 and LOVES it with the RS225 crossed about 600hz. I just bought a pair of the blue Thiel 8424's myself.

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  • GoodMusic
    replied
    I'm in Atlanta.

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  • Drummer
    replied
    RPB is correct. The Aluminum rs225 goes lower, but is an 86 db driver, while the rs225p is a 90db driver. My 225p is crossed at 800hz. Where are you located, GoodMusic? Glenn.

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  • rpb
    replied
    I think the non P versions dig deeper! I'd sim the response to be sure.

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  • GoodMusic
    replied
    Originally posted by Drummer View Post
    Good music, I have a 3 way with a single rs225p, and it does everything that you described wanting. If you have two of them on the bottom in parallel, they could blow you out of a room, if 90 db is LOUD to you. The great thing about a mtmww using them is you will barely be running your amp at your volumes, which equals low the, and the speaker distortion will be much lower because they will barely be breaking a sweat.
    Out of curiosity, what do you have the rs225ps crossed over at?

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  • GoodMusic
    replied
    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    The x-over is the heart of the speaker. I'd suggest keeping it external so that changes can be made easily.
    I was thinking the same thing. Don't want to have to pull drivers out every time I want to change something. Even if I get to a "golden place" and stop changing it, I'll probably keep it external (just make a nice box for it).

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  • rpb
    replied
    Originally posted by GoodMusic View Post

    Full range-ish strictly for 2 ch listening in a non-WAF area (non-WAF = room treatment). May add a sub or 2 somewhere down the line for the bottom octave.



    Yup. I want to do a 3 way stand-mount for the bedroom. Also, I can easily see myself getting hooked and building speakers just for ****!!s and giggles.



    I normally listen at ~65-72 at the listening position (~71-78 @ 1m). 90db is pretty loud for me (at listening position) and I have no NEED for more but would like to know that I have more available if I get in the mood and want to crank up a song or two. I currently use an NAD C370 that's rated at 120w/ch but measured 170/ch by Stereophile. Future amplification is (power-wise), whatever I need. BUT, I'd love to have some freedom as some of the amps I'd like to try are relatively low powered (I'm speaking strictly SS).



    For my own listening enjoyment, they'll be located wherever I can get them to sound best. I can move them out of the way if needed. The area is open (the entire downstairs of a small townhome) and I'd like to be able to get some volume out of them if I have a party.
    I tend to build speakers, and then later rob parts off of them to make something different. After all these years, I currently don't have a finished pair. (That will change soon.) I've cut towers in half to make a small pair of speakers. I've modified 5.25" 2-ways to make the 6.5". I've ruined a lot of half way decent boxes, but I have fun!

    For your man cave, I think the second woofer, might be overkill. Nothing wrong with overkill, but the box will be heavier, and more difficult to move around, even during construction. I'd pick an 8", or 10" woofer that can provide a very low f3, in a box size that looks right to you.

    Full, or close to full BSC will likely be what you need.

    You have plenty of power, so overall speaker sensitivity is not important.

    The x-over is the heart of the speaker. I'd suggest keeping it external so that changes can be made easily. My x-overs are on the floor, connected with jumpers. (Soon to change.)

    When you go to a sub-woofer arrangement, a lot can change. Nothing has to though. The mains can be much smaller, and perhaps 2-way designs. Bass management plays an important roll, and it can be frustrating to get a really good blend.

    It sounds like you have the bug, and are going to have a lot of fun!
    Last edited by rpb; 11-24-2019, 11:19 AM.

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  • Drummer
    replied
    Good music, I have a 3 way with a single rs225p, and it does everything that you described wanting. If you have two of them on the bottom in parallel, they could blow you out of a room, if 90 db is LOUD to you. The great thing about a mtmww using them is you will barely be running your amp at your volumes, which equals low the, and the speaker distortion will be much lower because they will barely be breaking a sweat.

    Leave a comment:


  • GoodMusic
    replied
    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    What sort of speaker are you wanting to build?
    Full range-ish strictly for 2 ch listening in a non-WAF area (non-WAF = room treatment). May add a sub or 2 somewhere down the line for the bottom octave.

    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    This is your first speaker. Do you plan to build more?
    Yup. I want to do a 3 way stand-mount for the bedroom. Also, I can easily see myself getting hooked and building speakers just for ****!!s and giggles.

    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    How loud do you want to play? Do you know how loud 90dB sounds? Do you want much more than that?How much amplifier power do you have,or plan to have?
    I normally listen at ~65-72 at the listening position (~71-78 @ 1m). 90db is pretty loud for me (at listening position) and I have no NEED for more but would like to know that I have more available if I get in the mood and want to crank up a song or two. I currently use an NAD C370 that's rated at 120w/ch but measured 170/ch by Stereophile. Future amplification is (power-wise), whatever I need. BUT, I'd love to have some freedom as some of the amps I'd like to try are relatively low powered (I'm speaking strictly SS).

    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    Where in the room will the speakers be located? How big is the room? You seem to be overly focused on sensitivity. Why?
    For my own listening enjoyment, they'll be located wherever I can get them to sound best. I can move them out of the way if needed. The area is open (the entire downstairs of a small townhome) and I'd like to be able to get some volume out of them if I have a party.

    Leave a comment:


  • rpb
    replied
    What sort of speaker are you wanting to build? This is your first speaker. Do you plan to build more? Will these be used with a sub, or as part of a home theater? How loud do you want to play? Do you know how loud 90dB sounds? Do you want much more than that? How much amplifier power do you have,or plan to have? Where in the room will the speakers be located? How big is the room? Part of designing your own speakers is designing for your specific goals, or needs. Trying to design one that pleases everybody, or every situation, is not usually the best approach. You seem to be overly focused on sensitivity. Why?

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  • Chris Roemer
    replied
    You CAN go WMTMW, but I'd go MTMWW which makes it easier to keep the tweeter at (seated) ear-level (36"-40"?).
    WinISD ( linearteam.org - sorry Craig ) can show you cone excursion w/any given source level. "X-max" stays the same, but excursion varies by freq. (more stroke at lower freqs.). I actually simmed a pair of those mids in more like a sealed/stuffed box of 0.06cf.

    Click image for larger version

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  • GoodMusic
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
    Thing is, while the 4" mids should have great dispersion, and look flat as HE-double hockey-sticks, the "active" part of the cone is barely over 2-1/2", and their stated Xmax is only 2.6mm.
    There biggest limiting factor (however) is their (thermal) rating of only 15w RMS (probably due to some fairly fine wire wrapped around a small v.c. former). An 86dB driver will run at 96dB @ 10w. At their rated 15w they'll push almost 98dB. In a sealed/stuffed 0.04cf box, they can play @ 150Hz @ 15w w/out hitting Xmax. At 120Hz however, they hit 2.8mm.
    Chris, could you tell me how you calculated what Xmax would be @ 150Hz and 120Hz?

    As for the woofer, I suppose I can do 2 RS225Ps for a sensitivity of approximately 89-91db with BSC and be just about in line with using 2 mids and the 27TBFC. I could go WMTMW

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  • GoodMusic
    replied
    Thanks guys. I'll chew on the above responses and probably have more questions lol.

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