Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Question for the wood workers here

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I will go out and recheck the saw today and put on a new blade. I am sure the blade I have now is contributing to the rougher edge than I am wanting. I felt more resistance and it took longer to cut than I remember. I do have a new 60tpi blade so that will be perfect.

    My saw goes both directions for angle so I have two 45’s to set. I am going to recheck them today and make a bunch of test cuts.

    I am also going to practice Bill’s method which I think is going to be very helpful.

    Comment


    • #17
      Because the blade pulls the wood into the cut, don't make just one cut on the board at 45 degrees. Assume the first cut is not square, then use second or third cuts to correct or fix the cut. By making a smaller cut into the wood the force pulling the wood into the blade is less so you can hold the wood without it moving.
      John H

      Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by jhollander View Post
        Because the blade pulls the wood into the cut, don't make just one cut on the board at 45 degrees. Assume the first cut is not square, then use second or third cuts to correct or fix the cut. By making a smaller cut into the wood the force pulling the wood into the blade is less so you can hold the wood without it moving.
        Ok Gotcha. I had not thought of that. I will do this. Interestingly I kinda do this already but not consistent. I tend to cut a little large and then “trim” to fit. Since I never seem to make things as exact as I would like there is a lot of hand massaging.

        I do think the tips here will help me a lot. It may take some practice but at least I have some things to try.

        Comment


        • #19
          I had a much better day cutting today. I was able to get a couple boxes made up with better joints that I have been getting for a while. I greatly appreciate all of the advice.

          I have not reached perfection but I am happy with todays result and I will continue to work on my skill level.

          My blade was dull and I put on a new 60 tpi blade. The last one was a very fine 80 and I did get more tearing of the outer ply with the 60. I can repair them with putty… I could try to tape them first but in the end they are fine.

          I will be checking my saw and adjusting it each time I start a build. It was off a little in the 90 degree and one of the 45s was also off. The hardest one to get right was the straight cuts. Getting the 100% square is tough. But it is probably 98% there.

          I realize that I would be better off with the clamp that goes with the saw. I was able to use a clamp to do what was suggested and made a stop and cut all of the boards with that dimension. That saves time and helps my accuracy.

          Comment


          • #20
            I use a crosscut sled on my tablesaw. Though my mitersaw makes good 45s, the sled is much easier to create the 45s.
            https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
              My chop saw has two adjustments. One sets it at 90. The other is a stop screw that limits it to 45, so first you set the 90, then you set the 45 stop. I never trust the 45 stop, I always double check it before cutting.
              I assume you're using solid wood, otherwise it's not worth the bother. When I do this I start with one piece of wood. I make cuts like so: \ / \ / \ without moving the blade, flipping the board end to end for each cut. Then if one side of the cut is 44 degrees the other will be 46 degrees, which when assembled will be 90 degrees. Mark the board A-A,B-B, etc on either side of each cut, so you know which way they assemble.
              This is similar to how I set up my saw for perpendicularity. With the saw at 0 degrees (90) cut a piece of scrap, then flip one side over front to back (not side to side, end for end, etc) so the two edges that you just cut are but(t)ing up against each other, but one is face down from when you made the cut. Keep the scrap flush to the fence and compare the two halves. If you have a gap at the front or back, your blade isn't perpendicular to the fence. If you have a gap on the top or bottom face, your saw is out of square vertically. Sort those two things out first or you will never have clean miters.

              Don't trust your speed square unless it is a precision tool kept in a controlled climate and has never been dropped or mishandled. They are good enough for framing but not close enough for fine carpentry, IME. Also, most people don't notice that the teeth on the saw blade are wider than the body of the blade; this is so the body of the saw blade doesn't bind while cutting through lumber. When setting a speed square on the fence or table and aligning it with the blade, you usually contact the tooth at the bottom and see a slight gap at the top where it would contact the body of the blade. This often leads folks to misadjust the saw. You can mitigate this by setting the square between teeth, but that gap is too small if you are using a high tooth count blade. I usually forgo that speed square method in favor of the aforementioned method which can be done anywhere as long as you have piece of scrap that is flat and has one straight edge.

              Once you have your 0 degree set, kick the saw over to 45 and cut two scrap pieces - two separate pieces, not just cut one piece cut in half. Take the same two piece from each cut (I usually take the pieces on top of the saw blade since that is usually the piece I am using as a finished edge) and set them together as a mitered corner. Evaluate the corner for perpendicularity by simply wrapping it around a square cut of scrap such as one of the pieces from the step above setting the 0 degree stop (a speed square is close and may be close enough for you, but knowing you have a truly square cut of wood is better). If your mitered faces are tight and you have a gap that grows away from the square board, your saw is less than 45 degrees; if you have a gap at the corner with the mitered edges, your saw is over 45 degrees. Adjust the tilt of the saw as necessary to get 45 degrees. Make sure to adjust your gauge, pointer, or detent for repeatability. If the gauge is not true, note where true 0, 90, 45, etc are.

              If you saw has stops or detents rather than just a needle and markers, u can usually adjust the entire detent (like on a sliding compound miter saw). Radial arm saws - well, I haven't used one in forever. I've never owned one. I find modern detents are pretty darn close on good equipment, once you've set the 0/90.

              I like to wrap my lumber in continuous grain whenever possible when mitering rather than BFM's method of flipping one mitered board over. This also hides the blowout from the cut on the bottom of the blade. Not saying BFM is incorrect, just stating I prefer a different method. Sure, you have the make twice as many cuts and move the saw from one 45 to the other, but I feel it is worth the effort.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by isaeagle4031 View Post
                I use a crosscut sled on my tablesaw. Though my mitersaw makes good 45s, the sled is much easier to create the 45s.
                I currently don’t have a table saw. I don’t have a shop actually. However, I thinking about getting one of the nicer table top ones next year.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by stephenmarklay View Post
                  I did get more tearing of the outer ply with the 60...
                  So you're using plywood. I don't bother with mitered joints with plywood.
                  www.billfitzmaurice.com
                  www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    If you are making 45 degree joints for a speaker box consider taping the joints and folding up the box. As the cuts can be off, layout all the panels against a straight edge then tape the joints.
                    John H

                    Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                      So you're using plywood. I don't bother with mitered joints with plywood.
                      I know you don’t Bill. I do and have been able to get a look a like. When I build a speaker I love I will build a hardwood cab and I will have the new found skill.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jhollander View Post
                        If you are making 45 degree joints for a speaker box consider taping the joints and folding up the box. As the cuts can be off, layout all the panels against a straight edge then tape the joints.
                        Thanks - that is just what I do. It makes gluing up easy, provided the cuts are good.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_5073.JPG Views:	0 Size:	90.6 KB ID:	1427998

                          The fence/blade adjustment seems to be the hardest to get exact. Even with a true 90 degree square to measure, the blade/square contact area is rather limited. While my cuts look pretty good it is a bit off yet.

                          However, I thought of a way to do it that may be more accurate. I added a laser to mine (just bolts next to the blade) which is a nice addition. My plan is to use a long carpenter square with the blade spinning. The laser will show me the line way better than my little square pressed against the blade. I will report back.

                          EDIT: This seemed to work way easier for me.
                          Last edited by stephenmarklay; 12-30-2019, 08:28 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Not to discourage the miter-joint on the chop saw method -- but there is a significant amount of "chasing your tail" with this method. Chop saws, even the super high end ones, are, by design, subject to so much more variation in set-up, play, and operation. Especially when cutting a 45° angle, the motion of your hand pulling the saw down can introduce some changes in both across the width of the cut, and the angle.

                            When i cut miters for boxes on the tablesaw, it's a new set-up every time which involves literally cutting 4 corners and test fitting scrap boards to check for square. Checking one corner is never enough. That last corner will always fight you! So with scrap material, i'll cut 4 corners, and depending on whether the resulting box's corners are open to inside/outside (meaning, accute vs. obtuse angles) i'll make a tiny adjustment, and repeat, making a slightly smaller test box ...

                            I would strongly recommend building a zero clearance fence that you can affix a stop block to. Once you can control lengths of the boards, you can make minute adjustments by dropping slips of paper, playing cards, etc. under the boards to compensate for any error in set-up. Might be easier for you to adjust on the fly, instead of fighting with the saw's own adjustments. either can work, just depends on which one is easier to control for small changes.

                            Best of luck!
                            ab

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ajames View Post
                              Not to discourage the miter-joint on the chop saw method -- but there is a significant amount of "chasing your tail" with this method. Chop saws, even the super high end ones, are, by design, subject to so much more variation in set-up, play, and operation. Especially when cutting a 45° angle, the motion of your hand pulling the saw down can introduce some changes in both across the width of the cut, and the angle.

                              When i cut miters for boxes on the tablesaw, it's a new set-up every time which involves literally cutting 4 corners and test fitting scrap boards to check for square. Checking one corner is never enough. That last corner will always fight you! So with scrap material, i'll cut 4 corners, and depending on whether the resulting box's corners are open to inside/outside (meaning, accute vs. obtuse angles) i'll make a tiny adjustment, and repeat, making a slightly smaller test box ...

                              I would strongly recommend building a zero clearance fence that you can affix a stop block to. Once you can control lengths of the boards, you can make minute adjustments by dropping slips of paper, playing cards, etc. under the boards to compensate for any error in set-up. Might be easier for you to adjust on the fly, instead of fighting with the saw's own adjustments. either can work, just depends on which one is easier to control for small changes.

                              Best of luck!
                              ab
                              Thank you Ajames! Right now I only have my miter saw. For sure a table saw would be ideal for a lot of what I do but I don’t currently the one. I hope to get a table top one this coming year.

                              As far as the zero clearance fence - I have to look that up

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Does anyone know where I can get a clamp like this?
                                Click image for larger version

Name:	DF2CE9A4-2541-4D72-895B-B4111618B0FA.jpeg
Views:	79
Size:	88.2 KB
ID:	1428084

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X