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  • #46
    The difference between the SQ audiophile guys, vs the crazy loud car stereo guys, so totally reminds me of the difference between fly fisherman and big fish fisherman. It's kind of the same, but completely different. BTW, I have no problem with fly fisherman, but personally speaking, I always wanted to catch the biggest fish. How I caught it was secondary.

    Sure, I want my stereo to be clean, and I appreciate peaks and valleys. It doesn't "all" have to be loud. It's perfectly fine if it bounces around between 120 and 160db's 😆 lol

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    • #47
      Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
      1/10th the power is a 10dB reduction in level. A horn loaded driver can run with 10dB higher sensitivity than when direct radiating, so you can reach the same level with 1/10 the power and a far lower driver count as well.
      They know that kiddies of all ages are impressed with big numbers.

      Look at the speakers, Mike. look at the speakers.
      Bill F, impo, although horns get really loud on far less power, I think they kind of suck for car audio. Theirs a reason they are rarely used in car stereo systems. Too narrow and directional, for one thing not to mention, super loud mids and highs are not often the goal of most 20, 30, or 50 Kwt systems.

      You can bash on those kinds of car audio systems all you want, but their are plenty of "adults" who are into this stuff. In fact, most of the craziest loudest, car audio systems are built by 40+ yo white guys. BTW, I'm 56 yo, and I'm really not at all interested in ultra clean, perfect soundstage systems played with like 50 wts in a super sound deadened environment. No problem with the guys that are into that. Just not my thing.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by dalbert02 View Post
        If the first watt sounds bad, why do you want 1,000 more? Music has peaks, that is why you need headroom. If you are just running sine waves, and are only chasing SPLs then by all means go for max watts. If you are listening to music, you need power in reserves for dynamics. If you just want it louder, run everything through an audio compressor, that will ensure there are no peaks or valleys, everything will all be loud. It won't sound musical, but it will be loud. I have a 4,000 watt Crown amp for my 18" sub. I bet 99% of the time I am only using <100W.
        Did someone say compressed ... Death Magnetic and if I remember my younger years, just about anything from Motley Crue.
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Kornbread View Post
          These guys are hitting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over 120db.
          Then it's not faithful to the original performance. But don't get caught up in the dB competition nonsense. I can peg my sound meter by just blowing into the mic, and it sure isn't reaching +130dB when I do that. Between cabin gain and air compression in a tightly sealed car or truck it's easy to get numbers that are anything but real world.
          www.billfitzmaurice.com
          www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Fishchris View Post

            Bill F, impo, although horns get really loud on far less power, I think they kind of suck for car audio. Theirs a reason they are rarely used in car stereo systems. Too narrow and directional, for one thing not to mention, super loud mids and highs are not often the goal of most 20, 30, or 50 Kwt systems.
            ...and let's not forget, their SIZE.

            Two 12" drivers with 160W each in 1.25 cu.ft. sealed boxes netted me 139dB @50 Hz in my last car, and the response curve extended down to single digit frequencies. Try getting that in your living room with a horn ;). While my listening tastes are geared towards deep house music these days, organ pipe music and the cannons in the 1812 Overture sound real different on a system capable of reaching that low and getting that loud.
            Last edited by Brian Steele; 02-11-2020, 06:05 AM.
            Brian Steele
            www.diysubwoofers.org

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            • #51
              Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
              Then it's not faithful to the original performance. But don't get caught up in the dB competition nonsense. I can peg my sound meter by just blowing into the mic, and it sure isn't reaching +130dB when I do that. Between cabin gain and air compression in a tightly sealed car or truck it's easy to get numbers that are anything but real world.
              Not everyone cares about being faithful to the original performance.
              Not everyone cares about numbers which are real world.
              Personally speaking, I just like loud and clear.

              But you won't hear me talking about the guys that do, as if they are clueless, silly, acting like children, etc. To each their own.

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              • #52
                Just because he likes a different aspect of the hobby than home sq doesn’t mean he should be scrutinized. He’s having fun with the hobby in a way he enjoys. It’s like comparing a funny car driver with a guy that enjoys the pureness of motoring in a vintage British roadster. Totally different aspects of the same hobby but in the end they are both still gearheads. I’m happy for him that he is stoked about his setup and found a system that fulfills his desires. We all should be.

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                • #53
                  It's not only that his goals are counter to basically every goal of faithful sound reproduction, it's that he's simply wrong on a bunch of things. Bill had mentioned horn bass loading, and Fish somehow thought horns were only for mid/hi freqs.


                  ​​​​​
                  ​​​Talking about narrow and directional when Bill was referencing bass, saying they "suck" for car audio. Jeez, when I was into car audio under dash Image Dynamics CD horns were the go to for a competition system. FYI those horns were only directional in the vertical plane.
                  ​​​​​​

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                  • Fishchris
                    Fishchris commented
                    Editing a comment
                    My bad... Your right, I did think Bill was talking about horn loading of mids / highs. As far as horn loaded bass, sure. I'm very interested in that. I know there are some really high end car stereos with such enclosures, and that's awesome. But for myself, as it is, with my 18" sub and passive radiator setup, I'm more than satisfied for the time being. Down the road though, I'd totally consider a horn loaded subwoofer setup.

                • #54
                  Does a single full range 3" driver embrace the goal of 'faithful sound reproduction'? Maybe over a truncated range, but certainly not if one demands accuracy from 20Hz to 20kHz. Yet there are several designs for single 3" full range drivers that people applaud. I cannot see why it is acceptable to forgive a design that marginalizes the bottom two octaves yet then condemn a design that accentuates the bottom two octaves.

                  I too am frustrated by slackjawed morons blasting any manner of garbage from their car stereos. I also am frustrated by lifted diesel trucks with 8" exhaust tips that both assault the ears and several other senses.

                  I do not believe Fishchris falls into either category. Certainly his current goal is to get his bass response where he is happy with it. Not really much different than any other subwoofer build on here - auto or home.

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                  • #55
                    Originally posted by dynamo View Post
                    Just because he likes a different aspect of the hobby than home sq doesn’t mean he should be scrutinized. He’s having fun with the hobby in a way he enjoys. It’s like comparing a funny car driver with a guy that enjoys the pureness of motoring in a vintage British roadster. Totally different aspects of the same hobby but in the end they are both still gearheads. I’m happy for him that he is stoked about his setup and found a system that fulfills his desires. We all should be.
                    This.

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                    • #56
                      Thank you guys. I know I am completely clueless on a lot of aspects, especially concerning horn loading. But I know what I like, and what I'd like to achieve... AND i know that my goals are completely different than a lot of guys, so I think a lot of expertise from those guys, may, or may not be helpful to me.

                      And just to reiterate, I'm really happy with how my system is sounding right now. I think getting a DSP integrated, and a new 4 ch amp, to replace my shaky one, is going to be all I need... for a little bit ;)

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                      • #57
                        Originally posted by Fishchris View Post
                        ... is going to be all I need... for a little bit ;)
                        Unless you struck it rich, you will run out of money way before ever having, 'all you need'.

                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

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                        • #58
                          Originally posted by Kornbread View Post

                          Unless you struck it rich, you will run out of money way before ever having, 'all you need'.
                          Well that's why I added... For a little bit 🙂 lol

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                          • Serpentus
                            Serpentus commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I like him. I like bass. Let's just continue this constructively.

                        • #59
                          I like Fish Chris and I like bass. That is all.

                          Comment


                          • #60
                            Originally posted by Serpentus View Post
                            I like Fish Chris and I like bass. That is all.
                            Thank you bro I know with my special combination of ADD and OCD, I kind of bounce all over the freaking place sometimes, and it drives some people crazy, including myself lol But I really am a very positive, friendly guy, and the same guys who get all pissy with my on forums, would likely get along great with me in person. Unless they really were just @holes themselves lol
                            Peace

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