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  • New Member OB project thoughts.

    I am embarking on my second speaker build exploration. The first was .... Meh. It was some towers using GRS BOFU clones. Proof of concept, and delivered adequate sound/stage.

    Now I would like to step up to something a little, stress a "little", more complex.

    I have ZERO experience with, and very little understanding of, x-overs theory. I read about them incessantly, but beyond what they are and what they do conceptually, it's like reading Greek.

    What I would like to do is build a pair of small-ish open baffle speakers. I say smallish, but I'm open to pretty much whatever.

    My ideal situation would be to build them from solid wood or high quality sheet goods. I'm a woodworker by trade, so no problem there.

    Further, I would like to build them using parts found here, at PE. Preferred that they are on the inexpensive end of the spectrum, and using an off the shelf, prebuilt x-over.

    So, with the above stipulations, what would be your recommendation (s) for drivers and x-over?

    Bear in mind, I'm looking to build these as a way of getting some hands on experience building speakers with x-overs, but will continue to research them with an eye toward making my own eventually.

    Listening room is approx 24 x 12x 8. Wood floors with rugs, brick walls.
    I listen to IT ALL. Rock to jazz to classical.

    Budget is not Paramount, but is a major, major concern. So I would like to keep it at around $200 or less if possible.

  • #2
    How low do you want to extend your frequency response ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Would you be okay with a 3way design that has the subwoofer in a box while the midwoofer and tweeter are open-baffle, or do you want/need the woofer to be open-baffle too?

      Allowing the speaker that's responsible for bass to be in a box will let it play bass a lot more efficiently which should let you use just a single subwoofer for each side rather than needing two or four subs at each side to keep the bass at the same level as everything else when playing loud in a large-ish room. Open-baffle bass rolls off pretty fast and early, so you end up needing more speakers and/or more watts at the low-end to push it back up.
      Open-baffle mids and highs don't have this problem, so single drivers are totally fine for OB mids/highs.


      You technically CAN do small and inexpensive OpenBaffle bass...it just won't be able to get very loud at several feet away in a room.
      My first 2way build

      Comment


      • #4
        For now (next) you should seriously just consider a medium-size 2-way (6"-7" woofer) that's already been designed for you. (Why not a "kit"?)
        You WILL have to make up a (predesigned) crossover - unfortunately. "Off-the-shelf" XOs just don't work well enough for SQ.
        Open back systems need an even MORE customized XO due to the (peculiar?) interaction of front/back waves w/the room (surroundings).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LOUT View Post
          Would you be okay with a 3way design that has the subwoofer in a box while the midwoofer and tweeter are open-baffle, or do you want/need the woofer to be open-baffle too?

          Allowing the speaker that's responsible for bass to be in a box will let it play bass a lot more efficiently which should let you use just a single subwoofer for each side rather than needing two or four subs at each side to keep the bass at the same level as everything else when playing loud in a large-ish room. Open-baffle bass rolls off pretty fast and early, so you end up needing more speakers and/or more watts at the low-end to push it back up.
          Open-baffle mids and highs don't have this problem, so single drivers are totally fine for OB mids/highs.


          You technically CAN do small and inexpensive OpenBaffle bass...it just won't be able to get very loud at several feet away in a room.
          Lout,

          Sure, I'm open to that for sure. I'm more or less just wanting to tinker, and try my hand with OB. Closed woofer is fine with me!

          Comment


          • #6
            You're jumping into the deep end before you can swim.

            Edit: OK, you backed off OB bass. That really can't be small or inexpensive, or easy.
            Francis

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
              For now (next) you should seriously just consider a medium-size 2-way (6"-7" woofer) that's already been designed for you. (Why not a "kit"?)
              You WILL have to make up a (predesigned) crossover - unfortunately. "Off-the-shelf" XOs just don't work well enough for SQ.
              Open back systems need an even MORE customized XO due to the (peculiar?) interaction of front/back waves w/the room (surroundings).
              Chris,
              i see what you are saying here.
              My aversion to a kit is only in that I can build the thing myself.
              I guess I was kind of hoping for a SQ comparable to commercial offerings at a minimum, using cheaper-ish drivers and off the shelf x-over. I am truly no where near ready to start building x-overs myself.

              My hopes are high, but expectations are low.
              So is my bank account, so off the rack and as plug and play as I can get are really my overriding factors.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Madcapwoodwright View Post

                Chris,
                i see what you are saying here.
                My aversion to a kit is only in that I can build the thing myself.
                I guess I was kind of hoping for a SQ comparable to commercial offerings at a minimum, using cheaper-ish drivers and off the shelf x-over. I am truly no where near ready to start building x-overs myself.

                My hopes are high, but expectations are low.
                So is my bank account, so off the rack and as plug and play as I can get are really my overriding factors.
                A kit will have a crossover with it. At worst, you may have to solder the parts together on a board.
                Francis

                Comment


                • Madcapwoodwright
                  Madcapwoodwright commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Ok, so maybe I'll take a hard look at some of the kits. Seems to be the consensus

              • #9
                I suggest you look around for a predesigned speaker system that you can buy all of the components of and then make the cabinets yourself. There are lots of great sites with proven designs. I certainly do not know all of them but this is a great one with some solid theory and some great designs https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy

                Many open baffle designs lean towards the higher end so it may be difficult to get under your $200 budget.

                Interesting thing about buying a kit, at least from Parts Express, is that, by the time you price all of the parts, the enclosure is basically free.

                Comment


                • #10
                  ChrisRoemer makes good points about open-baffle adding extra complexity. The mids can end up with a frequency spike or valley because the sound coming from the back will interact with the sound coming from the front at certain frequencies which will be different depending mostly on the width of your open baffle. You'd normally measure or math where the most major bump/valley ends up based on your baffle dimensions and then plan the crossover in a way that flattens those problems out...but that can be inherently complicated to find and then it'll need some extra crossover parts to fix.

                  I think you could technically avoid this issue with a wide enough baffle and high enough crossover point between the subwoofer and midwoofer, but I'm guessing that'd be something like 2ft-wide with a crossover point around 1200hz or higher from sub to mid. And I'm VERY inexperienced with OB, so this "fix" is only a rough theory/guess which might not be true at all.

                  A plain boxed 2way would be easier to find acceptible premade parts for if needed, and simpler for planning your own crossover if you decide to experiment.

                  If you do want to learn some more about crossovers, here's a video that helped me along with a free crossover software that helps the changes be more visual....it helped me a LOT being able to see what changes do what in real time.
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJqvjjyHqqA
                  and this is a link to the software, also in the video:
                  https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/S...l#Installation

                  Sadly the older version of this program (VituixCAD v1) doesn't seem to be available anymore. The newest version is more flexible, but I think the older version is easier to learn on because most of the crossover business is more preset/premade.
                  If the forum allows it (anyone who knows feel free to speak up) should it be possible for me to share/upload the original version from my computer?
                  My first 2way build

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Several sources have component and plans kits, often they can assemble the crossovers for you. So basically someone gathers the parts, makes your crossovers and sends it all to you with a plan for the cab.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      These little guys are surprising, perfect for a 2.1 setup. The "crossover" is one capacitor. I'm building a set from a flat pack from SilverD. Dirt cheap for really good sound. Sort of open baffle.

                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ardioid-design

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Siegfied Linkwitz, certainly open baffle, not cheap. Just for your enjoyment.

                        http://linkwitzlab.com/

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by djg View Post
                          Several sources have component and plans kits, often they can assemble the crossovers for you. So basically someone gathers the parts, makes your crossovers and sends it all to you with a plan for the cab.
                          This is more or less exactly what I was thinking. Thanks.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by LOUT View Post
                            ChrisRoemer makes good points about open-baffle adding extra complexity. The mids can end up with a frequency spike or valley because the sound coming from the back will interact with the sound coming from the front at certain frequencies which will be different depending mostly on the width of your open baffle. You'd normally measure or math where the most major bump/valley ends up based on your baffle dimensions and then plan the crossover in a way that flattens those problems out...but that can be inherently complicated to find and then it'll need some extra crossover parts to fix.

                            I think you could technically avoid this issue with a wide enough baffle and high enough crossover point between the subwoofer and midwoofer, but I'm guessing that'd be something like 2ft-wide with a crossover point around 1200hz or higher from sub to mid. And I'm VERY inexperienced with OB, so this "fix" is only a rough theory/guess which might not be true at all.

                            A plain boxed 2way would be easier to find acceptible premade parts for if needed, and simpler for planning your own crossover if you decide to experiment.

                            If you do want to learn some more about crossovers, here's a video that helped me along with a free crossover software that helps the changes be more visual....it helped me a LOT being able to see what changes do what in real time.
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJqvjjyHqqA
                            and this is a link to the software, also in the video:
                            https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/S...l#Installation

                            Sadly the older version of this program (VituixCAD v1) doesn't seem to be available anymore. The newest version is more flexible, but I think the older version is easier to learn on because most of the crossover business is more preset/premade.
                            If the forum allows it (anyone who knows feel free to speak up) should it be possible for me to share/upload the original version from my computer?
                            Lout,
                            thank you so much for all this info. So much to to Wade through.

                            Comment

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