Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Recommended Mid/Tweeter for this 10" driver

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Recommended Mid/Tweeter for this 10" driver

    A friend gave me a 33" tall 3 way speaker (realistic-Optimus-650, 100W) and the 10" woofer was replaced with a Coustic 10" 4 ohm woofer, the 4.5" mid's surrounds are shot, mostly disintegrated, the tweeters are unknown sure the status of them. I am planning on replacing the mids/tweeters/crossovers for use in a garage for music/movies played at decent volume. I have 3 different car amps to drive them (powered by a computer server power supply, 12v 70a $20, these are awesome), so I should be fine on enough power, my amps:
    Pioneer GT-5000T
    Sony xplod XXM-4060GTX
    I forgot the 3rd amp

    I am on a budget (say $60~$70 for 2 mids, 2 tweeters, 2 crossovers), what is a good match for the 10" drivers and is good bang for buck? I dont mind using a jigsaw if needed to enlarge the speaker holes a bit if needed (that mid is only 4", maybe 5.25" or 6.5" would be better? Maybe a 6.5" coaxial (with tweeter). I have been happy with Lanzar and Pyle drivers but am open to anything.

    Seeing the 10" are 200W rms (I kind of doubt it), what wattage does the mids and tweets need to be to (semi) match the woofer? (any calculators out there?, link)
    What crossover freq would go with the suggested mid/tweets and 10"?

    This will be a 4 ohm 3 way speaker , here is the specs on the 10"
    • 10" Single 4 Ohm Bass Pump Series Subwoofer
    • Power Handling:
      • Peak: 400 watts
      • RMS: 200 watts
    • Impedance: 4 Ohm
    • Textured polypropylene woofer cone
    • Black foam surround with yellow stitching
    • Kapton voice coil former
    • Blue zinc chromate top and bottom plates
    • 1-1/2" 4-Layer voice coil
    • 30oz. High-energy strontium magnet
    • Frequency response: 34-150 Hz
    • Sensitivity: 88.7
    https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...tic-BP104.html

    Realistic Optimus-650 speaker conversion





  • #2
    Sorry to say that woofer is missing some vital information. Without measuring the impedance & frequency response of the woofer in that box, trying to design something is a total shot in the dark - and that's assuming the woofer parameters actually match the cabinet & current tuning.

    Wish I had better news, but most here would spend your budgeted amount (or likely more) on just the crossover parts for a 3-way system.

    That said, JR's Le Singe Sarcophage is probably the least expensive 3-way design I've seen, at around $125. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...rs-based-3-way
    Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Tom for your response, I guess I am in the wrong neighborhood My tastes/requirements/standards must be much lower than most in these forums.

      My last rebuild turned really crummy $50 3-ways that blew up that turned out well (for my taste, lol)
      two PYLE PPA12 12" https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PYLE-PP...item1c69323396
      two NIPPON 5-1/4" https://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-2-NEW-...item56d8440cd5 (I do wish i would of went a little better, but they are fine)
      two 3-way crossovers https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-KASUN-...item3fbe5d6de0 (900/5000Hz crossover freq)
      All this was $100 shipped in Nov 2017
      And I had some ribbons from a trade (JVC HSW1101-01A)

      All I was hoping by posting was for a push in the direction of bang for buck to finish this pair, not looking to replace my infinity reference kappa 8's , thanks for your time.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • #4
        Be realistic and don’t get too complicated here. Just replace the mid and move on. If the tweeter works, leave the crossover as is. That said, there are a few considerations here:
        1. pull the mid and see if it is marked as 4 or 8 ohms. Replace with the same so that the existing crossover will be reasonably close to the original. If it is not marked, use a multimeter and measure the resistance of the mid alone (that is, unplugged from the crossover). If it’s less than 4 ohms, use a 4 ohm replacement. More than 6 ohms, use an 8 ohm replacement.
        2. See if the mid is in separate box within the bigger box. If it is, then you have few more choices. If it’s in the same space as the woofer, then you will need a closed back mid so that the internal pressure from the woofer will not badly affect the mid.

        -Bob
        -Bob

        The PEDS 2.1 mini system
        My A7 Project - another small desktop speaker
        The B3 Hybrid Dipole - thread incomplete and outdated

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BOBinGA View Post
          Be realistic and don’t get too complicated here. Just replace the mid and move on. If the tweeter works, leave the crossover as is.
          Bob, I don't know if you noticed, but he already replaced the woofer so it is not the original woofer either.

          I was looking at the tweeter and midrange in the Le Singe Sarcophage even before tom_s posted above.The main problem I saw was that the woofer has been replaced with a subwoofer with a Frequency response of 34-150 Hz and that midrange only goes down to around 600 Hz. If the box volume is close enough and the 12" woofer would fit (which it very well may not), I would make the same recommendation as Tom to just get the parts for the Le Singe Sarcophage and build that in that cabinet.

          Comment


          • #6
            Those would be nice, but a little above his stated $60-70 budget.
            -Bob

            The PEDS 2.1 mini system
            My A7 Project - another small desktop speaker
            The B3 Hybrid Dipole - thread incomplete and outdated

            Comment


            • #7
              Oz - I didn't mean to scare you off. People here are very friendly & helpful, but this is a site devoted to the art & science of designing & building what most people would consider high performance loudspeakers. Not always expensive parts, but we've been known to sweat the small details to get the best sound out a design.

              A lot has changed since those Realistic speakers were designed. We have much better tools (hardware & software) and drivers at our disposal now. That said, I found an old thread on AudioKarma.org that has some info about the Optimus 650s. Great people over there, if you haven't already found that site.

              https://audiokarma.org/forums/index....-these.428293/
              Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for the replies. The mid is 6Ω marked and is in a separate inclosure, so open back mid will be ok. The original system was 60W, the new woofer alone is much higher, so the thought was to update the mids/highs so they would not blow. And I agree, lets not over complicate a budget speaker.
                I was even thinking a 6.5" 2-way 4Ω car speaker and be done with it. Something like Kicker CS Series CSC65 6.5 Inch
                https://www.walmart.com/ip/Kicker-CS...Pack/242199999
                I can build a simple butterworth for these two. just kicking ideas around.

                EDIT: @ Tom, ya didnt really scare me off, but since I am totaly new here, i should of read a bunch more to learn more whats going on here, its good to know the general ideas/practics/etc of the group. I love high end, but not willing to pay for it. To me there is a exponential curve to pay for preformance in just about everything, generally I will look at the curve, price out the systems and buy the best bang for buck. For this pair I was just saving them from going in the trash and did not want to waist to much on them.I love DIY projects, especially in electronics, again, thanks for your insight.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just get some silicone caulk and run a big bead around the rotted surround and see how they sound. How bad could it be?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I dont have caulk, but a big roll of duct tape and my dad has awesome set of tools.

                    I think the bang for buck is 6.5" car component speakers, these should reach down to the 10" freq. boatload to choose from.
                    https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...acat=0&_sop=15

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Couple questions:

                      On a 3-way speaker system that is rated 100W rms, how much wattage is each driver, let's go with these size drivers?
                      10"
                      5"
                      1"

                      What about a 2-way 100W rms system with?
                      8"
                      1"

                      The original mid surrounds are rotted to almost dust (they would not support any weight), they span almost 1/2 inch gap on each side, caulk would be a nightmare to bridge that gap (and quite getto) and since the previous owner swapped to a much higher wattage woofer and 4Ω verse the other drivers higher impedance, these are my reasons to just swap the mids/highs even if the highs are still working.

                      These are looking decent mid/highs to go with the 10" and coming in under budget.
                      https://www.ebay.com/itm/Orion-CO652....c100009.m1982

                      The 10" claim a Frequency response: 34-150 Hz
                      the mid/high's claim a Frequency Response(Hz): 60 to 20K
                      Of course these are car audio specs and are wildly blown out of proportion.

                      Would you cross over woofer/mid around 140Hz or?
                      I could test them, but would need to pick up a mic, any suggestions on a decent mic in the low cost range (maybe a used mic from a 5.1 stereo or)?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oz - I just had a thought. That Sony amp is 4 channels with adjustable crossover points for HP & LP. With that at your disposal, you could use the Coustic subs in the current boxes...as subs! Then build a simple, cheap 2-way project to set on top of those. Play with the crossover points until you like the sound. There are a few small inexpensive designs that would fit the bill and you end up with something so much better than throwing a bunch of parts in the current speaker and saying a prayer.

                        Look at post #30 on this thread - the parts cost should be about $80 and it sounds surprisingly good for the cost of the drivers.

                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...-monitor/page2

                        I'm just throwing this out there for your consideration.
                        Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh - to answer your power/wattage question, here's an old thread that should help -

                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ofer-subwoofer
                          Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Tom. I forgot about the LP/HP filter in the car amp, thanks for reminding me of that. In another thread, I was going to use my Denon 7.1 receivers LF/HP filters (and sub-out looped around and "Y" back in to two free channels to drive the dual coil 8: woofer) for my PC sound system (four 3.5" satellites and one 8" woofer).

                            Also thanks for the link to the wattage, to sum it up, seems like power is split about like this,
                            5% highs
                            25% mids
                            65% woofer

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That woofer, is actually a SUB WOOFER, and if it only goes up to 150hz or so, I would Imagine the stock speaker crossover would be several hundred hertz higher in frequency, between the stock "Woofer" and midrange.
                              But I know the reality, speakers of that era usually used only a very simple crossover, usually the woofer ran free, and a cap to remove the lows from the mid.

                              So at the "Least" changes would be need to be made to the crossover. (let alone the fact of impedance and actual measured response)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X