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  • #16
    Originally posted by SentinelAeon View Post
    Could someone comment on what i wrote ? Is DC130B 4 ohm best for this price and which of the 2 images would you choose if loudness was more important than bass ?
    I think the DC130b-4 will start distorting and sounding ugly long before 40watts...it'll probably hit a wall closer to 10watts or a little less. I think it'll have trouble getting louder than ~97db.

    If the DC130 is used as a midwoofer where its lows start getting cut off around 200hz or higher and sent to a subwoofer, then the DC130 can get really loud, but when it's used to play lows below 200hz its limited XMAX/movement can limit how loud it'll play without going all "flubby". I think that limit will be around 97db or lower....and another 3-6db lower from bafflestep losses.


    Did you mention one or more of these amps being 2ohm stable earlier?
    If that's still an option, a pair of TCP115-4 in parallel at 2ohms should be easier to drive to full power and still have more headroom.
    My first 2way build

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    • #17
      Originally posted by SentinelAeon View Post
      Also as far as port goes, i have 2 options: 1 is deeper bass and flat frequency ilne, which is great for quality. But on the other hand, everything under 60Hz is deep and if i raise the enclosure frequency, i get about +5dB boost under 100Hz which means more loudness. And comment on that ? Calculations in attachment
      I think it'll be safest to aim for some middle ground where you get a slight bass-bump but maybe closer to ~3db or less (flatter if you're okay with it). I think you'll also want a port diameter around 4cm (or slightly larger if 4cm isn't an internal dimension you can find) and however long is needed to keep the bump more subtle....probably around 6cm long or a little more I'm guessing. That slightly larger diameter should help avoid port chuffing noises from that speaker in that box-size.
      My first 2way build

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      • #18
        Is there any single speaker alternative to DC130b-4 ? Because that sensitivity difference compared to TCP115 is still big ...even if i go 2x TCP115 4 (which my amp is supposed to handle, supposed)

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        • #19
          I believe a pair of TCP115-4 in parallel are almost 93db sensitive from 2.83v at 1m. If your amp is 2ohm stable, the pair of TCP115-4 should be all around louder than anything else in your budget.
          My first 2way build

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          • #20
            The amp i ordered is supposed to give 100W at 2 ohms, but i saw a video saying there are some problems getting the full power. Even 80W would be ok.
            If 1 speaker is 86.8dB, arent 2 speakers 89.8dB ?

            Btw i just checked the data and i see your worries about bass. TCP115 has 4mm xmax, DC130b-4 has only 2.5mm xmax. Another problem is testing the speaker at maximum loudness. I am not even sure i can do that at my home/workshop. Even getting single TCP115 4 ohm to maximum loudness is insane and hurts my ears and neighbours probably think i am losing it.

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            • #21
              Maybe this.

              https://www.parts-express.com/full-r...-51fw--292-430

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              • #22
                Thank you for your reply, it wont work because its 8 ohm which means my amp will top at 25W. Also, i dont find the full data to calculate the port. Btw i never asked but, can GRS be trusted ? I saw they sell speakers for quite low price but are the data real ? Or is it like aliexpress speakers with fake data ?

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                • #23
                  I don't know anything about GRS's reputation, but their wattage handling looks realistic...so assuming their specs are accurate, in a 15L box that GRS looks like it'll only reach down to 85hz F3. It wants something around 28L / 1ft-cu to start reaching ~60hz.

                  There's a review in PE for those GRS woofers with their own measurements which differ greatly from the listed specs, BUT the review doesn't mention whether or not they spend any time breaking-in the woofers first, and I think this can make a pretty big difference for some of these measurements.

                  -KlBird
                  "I ordered four of these for future projects and when they arrived I quickly put them through the WT3 tests. They are far from the advertised specs. Examples are: FS is 58Hz not 39Hz, Vas 0.815, Not 2.26 and Qts is .936 not .40. All four were within 5% of the above measurements. ..."

                  Can anyone here who's measured woofers new and then after break-in comment if they've seen changes in these T/S?...were any changes drastic?
                  My first 2way build

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                  • #24
                    Yeah it is as i feared. First, i tried many GRS for which i found data in my enclosure simulator and mostly the frequency line was very uneven and F3 was bad. I really do not want to gamble with them until i find a really good review of certain speakers saying it will be better than the ones from dayton.

                    Anyway, i wrote mail to my suplier and to dayton audio, simply asking if they have any better alternative to the speakers i want to order (Dayton Audio CE65W-8 2-1/2" for my ultra portable 1L builds and Dayton Audio DC130B-4 5-1/4" for those ultra big enclosures of 15L size). For all other decent speakers of 2-4L, Dayton audio TCP115-4 is simply amazing bang for buck. And for that ultra big build of 15L, if possible i will test BOTH 2xTCP115-4 and 1xDC130B-4. I should be getting my dB meter by that time, i hope it will do its job and tell me which setup produces more (its supposed to go down to 40dB that dB meter). If that fails, i will simply see what feels louder. If they both sound the same, i might aswel go with 2xTCP115-4 for better bass handling. I will keep you posted.

                    Thank you for helping me, much appreciated. I began from scratch, learning as i go. I tried many forums in my country and most of the replies were just mean comments where you could read between the lines that i am not even allowed to do any audio projects since i know nothing about it. Really shows character to be of help to someone who knows so little compared to you.

                    As soon as i get some parts and can do the testing i will report my findings. Also i will need some help with the crossover of the loud speaker - i still havent decided whether to do the optimal crossover (woofer + tweeter) or i go for the absolute loudest version and also include a full range visaton FRS 8M, capped at about 150Hz. That would mean the full range would duplicate audio from both woofer and tweeter, greatly reducing the quality, all in the hope of greater loudness.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SentinelAeon View Post
                      Thank you for your reply, it wont work because its 8 ohm which means my amp will top at 25W. Also, i dont find the full data to calculate the port. Btw i never asked but, can GRS be trusted ? I saw they sell speakers for quite low price but are the data real ? Or is it like aliexpress speakers with fake data ?
                      Use two in parallel.

                      Or pay a little more, and get this.

                      https://www.parts-express.com/peerle...-ohm--264-1412

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                      • #26
                        rpb makes a good point about the GRS being affordable enough to use two in parallel.

                        I don't want to seem like I'm disrespecting GRS or their specs. Their wattage claims for that driver look realistic (unlike some PYLE brand woofers), and there's a fair chance those T/S differences the reviewer noted might be the result of measuring the drivers stiff before they've had time to break-in. There might also be some chance for user error in the measuring...I don't know if that's an easy thing to do or not because of my own inexperience.

                        The negative from the GRS at least for this build is I think a pair of them would require a ~50L box to reach mid 60hz F3.

                        For a larger project looking to go loud on a tight budget using relatively few watts, those GRS might be great. The main user/review complaint for them is that they don't really reach the highs of a tweeter despite listing as "full-range" with their whizzer cone, but that's perfectly normal for any 8inch driver...they'll never make highs as well nor evenly dispersed as any decent tweeter. Dayton sells their own larger "full-range" drivers, and they suffer the exact same fate...highs aren't very good from a large driver.
                        My first 2way build

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                        • #27
                          I tried that tympany speaker but sadly in 15L enclosure i barely get under 100Hz. Now i know bass isnt a priority but i wouldnt be ok with giving away anything thats not at least 65Hz F3. As for FRS, the problem is, even if i belive the data ... i simply cannot get a decent F3 even if i use the data suplied. Highs arent a problem, there is a strong tweeter that takes care of that. I dont know.

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                          • #28
                            I agree they're not a good match for getting bass in a 15L or smaller box, so they're not a good fit for this particular project. I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't lumping them in with the blatently scammy brands. I don't want to accidentally scare you (or anyone else) away from GRS.
                            My first 2way build

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                            • #29
                              I guess the search for speakers continues. Even TCP115-4 ... i have been thinking if they are absolutely best bang for buck (which so far, they do indeed appear to be for 3L build). But then i look at JBL speakers. Sure, their loudness and bass cant compare with this 3L speaker. But they are a tiny bit smaller and have much smaller speakers in them. And they do indeed pack a punch and have good bass. So it really makes me wonder what kind of speakers they use. I surely couldnt find anything like that of such small size and be full range and still go very deep (JBL charge 4 has 1 square speaker and if u look at it playing, u can see massive excursion. When i tried anything like that with any speaker i found so far of similar size, there is simply no comparison).

                              Btw, i am driving TCP115-4 on 50W channel. And while it is perfectly OK at maxximum loudness (50W), i can hear that the driver is really being drive to its limits. If i lower the loudness to 90% or 95%, suddenly u see it not being driven to its limits. So for my next build with mono amplifier that will give me 50W at 4 ohms ... it might be perfect to do a nice crossover with tweeter. Tweeter in my testing draws around 7-10W. So that will leave TCP115-4 at its 40W.

                              I feel quite comfortable making speakers with port now. I know basics, i know how to calculate it, i know do's and don't. And i have been happy with the results so far. And this 3L speakers are still small enough to fit into a backpack near a 6 packs of beer. Which as it turns out is how most people interested in my speakers intend to use it.

                              But i would like to tacle the ultra portable thing too. I found a very interesting driver for 6.45€, Dayton Audio CE65W-8 2-1/2". Please check this speaker up when you have time. It will go down to 65Hz in 1L ported box. Graph is not flat sadly, but going that low is still nice. All good but what if i want to go even smaller ? 0.5L ? JBL does an amazing job at great bass from insanely small enclosures. Port will not do in that case. And that brings me to passive membranes, one thing i would really like to learn about. I know calculating passive membranes is supposed to be harder than doing a simple ported box. Do you have any advice how to tacle this, i would like to learn to choose a proper passive membrane for the CE65W-8 to get decent bass. How should i start ?

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                              • #30
                                I think you can use a 2cm diameter by 4.5cm long port for the CE in a box around 1L if you want to build something small while saving a little money by skipping the PassiveRadiator. That should be short enough to fit inside some pretty small enclosures depending on the layout.

                                I don't know how the cost compares for the site you're getting parts from, but if they're not too expensive you might also want to look at the Dayton DMA70 or DMA58 drivers for a small build. They can be a little friendlier toward smaller ported boxes (they like even smaller than the CE65W), they handle slightly higher wattage and they're more sensitive watt-per-watt....so it should be possible to make it louder and smaller.
                                The DMA's do pretty much NEED a ported box (or well-matched passiveR) to make bass though, while the CE65W looks like it can also work decently in a sealed box down around 125hz.
                                The DMA58 should be able to work in a 0.25L box...so it gets super small.


                                Splitting and amp's power between a woofer and tweeter using a crossover doesn't actually split the power up like that, by the way. Instead, the woofer will be able to get about 100% of the power it would normally get (like it's by itself) for all the low / bassy parts, but it gets practically nothing for the higher frequencies which all get sent to the tweeter instead. This is why a lot of crossovers need a resistor on the tweeter's section to tame the wattage down so the tweeter doesn't get blasted with 50+watts of highs. So it's a great way to send the lows and highs to whichever speaker is best at playing them without really wasting much/any of the power.
                                Technically the inductor/coil section of the LowPass crossover that is series connected to the woofer will have a small amount of resistance, so that's why the woofer won't see a perfect 100% of the power....but this is often something like ~0.5ohms or less.
                                My first 2way build

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