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Challenge: Is Dayton Audio TCP115-4 the ultimate budget woofer or ?

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  • Challenge: Is Dayton Audio TCP115-4 the ultimate budget woofer or ?

    Hi,

    I am building a 4L speaker BT speaker. Right now i am using the 15€ Dayton audio TCP115-4 4 ohm. It plays fantastic for my needs, F3 at 55Hz. But i would like to make something with even more sensitivity (bigger SPL). So i set the budget at 60€ for the woofer part (4x the price of the TCP115-4 !!). The speaker driver can be of any size, as long as it fits into a 4L enclosure. I went searching online for drivers and not only that i couldn't find a louder speaker, i couldnt even find the one that matches the daytons, which is amazing because they are really cheap.

    So, is there a louder speaker than TCP115-4 that can do about 55 or 60Hz F3 in 4L enclosure ?

  • #2
    The nd90/91 also can likely get in that area, with the benefit of not bottoming if over driven.

    Problem is though all small drivers that play low will be low sensitivity.

    Rule: Loud, Low, Small: you can have any two, but not all 3.

    The rule can be A little flexible though with DSP, a big amp, and a driver that can handle the power.

    A lot of oems for cars and little Bluetooth speakers employ psychoacoustics like missing fundamentals to trick our brain into hearing low bass that isn’t really there.

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    • #3
      I checked those speaker, both are nice, but sadly lower sensitivity than TCP115-4. TCP115-4 is 4" and has 86.8dB sensitivity at 4 ohms. I know those rules of size, bass, loud, etc. The only reason i am asking is because its amazing to me that there is nothing better than TCP115-4 even for 4 times the price. Generaly, when you pay more, you can find better speakers.

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      • #4
        TCP-115, by all accounts, is good for a $12.50 woofer. Is it really better than the similarly priced HiVi B4N, HiVi M4N, or Fountek FW-100B? For another $6, the Peerless 4" SDS woofer comes into play as well.
        Keep an open mind, but don't let your brain fall out.

        Sehlin Sound Solutions

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        • #5
          The DA115 is an excellent small woofer also. It also has a nice mid range and treble response and could possibly serve as a small full range driver. Compared to the TCP115, the DA115 has lower inductance and less Xmax. These items are possibly related, the DA115 appears to trade some maximum bass SPL for it's smooth high end response.

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          • #6
            I would like to say that for my speaker, quality of music and graphs do not come into play. Speaker is always used in very noisy environment so for now, all i care about is sub 60Hz F3 and it having sensitivity higher than 86.8dB at 4 ohms. I put probably 30 woofers of sub 60€ into winISD and couldn't find even 1 that is better. I would be glad if anyone can link me the speaker that is better. As for being full range, generaly that is nice addition but in my case i always use a tweeter with the woofer.

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            • #7
              Just be aware, if all your modeling is being done using the manufacturer's specs (not your own measurements), the actual outcome may be very different. I had to have PE send me six TCP115-4 drivers before I could get four to match each other reasonable close. And none of them matched the mfr specs. So that incredable low F3 in 4 liters isn't gonna happen. Some of the other mentioned drivers do match their specs well.
              Craig

              The lowest possible F3 box alignment is not always the best alignment.

              Designing and building speaker projects are like playing with adult Lego Blocks for me.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by SentinelAeon View Post
                I would like to say that for my speaker, quality of music and graphs do not come into play. Speaker is always used in very noisy environment so for now, all i care about is sub 60Hz F3 and it having sensitivity higher than 86.8dB at 4 ohms. I put probably 30 woofers of sub 60€ into winISD and couldn't find even 1 that is better. I would be glad if anyone can link me the speaker that is better. As for being full range, generaly that is nice addition but in my case i always use a tweeter with the woofer.
                Your f3 is closer to 500hz! Graphs do come into play.

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                • #9
                  Real DATS #s (from last yr):
                  Qes 0.49, Qms 3.2 (Qts 0.425), Fs 65, Vas 0.066cf, Re 3.2, Le 0.90, SPL 82dB (@ 1w)

                  You're using its 86dB rating @ 2.83v (which IS proper for XO design), but (for a 4ohm driver) that IS 2w.
                  I like it. Using it in 0.10cf (under 3L) tuned near 60Hz. Still, it can play 50Hz (and even 40) pretty solid.
                  I've got a 1.25" x 10" long port (vertical - out the top) that does well. (tweeter is an mdt-44S)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rpb View Post

                    Your f3 is closer to 500hz! Graphs do come into play.
                    Im pretty sure i wrote that port is calculated in winISD. And the thing you quote is just saying that i dont look at the graph and say its nice, i prefer listening to it and saying its nice. But that doesnt mean the port is not calculated. Because it obviously is.

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                    • #11
                      The DS115-8 is a nice speaker. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
                      Kenny

                      http://www.diy-ny.com/
                      DIY NY/NJ 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwA...ature=youtu.be
                      Man does not live by measurements alone, a little music helps.

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                      • #12
                        Found the Silver Flute woofers very good for the price, but for total value, I think the Dayton RS series is hard to beat. Looking for 55Hz in 4L? Not asking for much are you!

                        More efficient is going to give up something in quality, big time. Amplifiers are cheap! Car stereo drivers are typically more efficient. But, what are you basing this on? 3dB is barely preceptable. So 88 to 91 dB, you may not hear.

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                        • #13
                          TCP115 4 ohm is F3 55Hz in 4L. Its not so much that i am looking for a replacement, it is a simple funny fact that i went as high as 60€ which is 4x the price of TCP115 and i still couldnt find the speakers that will even match TCP115 performance in 4L enclosure as far as bass and loudness goes.

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                          • #14
                            Key phrase " as far as bass and loudness" Cheap is useless if it is un-listenable. Cheaper drivers tend to need far more crossover, so that makes it more expensive. ( Except some Scan Speak or maybe the infamous B110.) Budget to me implies total system cost and if it meets the goals. 55Hz out of a 50cm-2 speaker won't fill a closet. Are you looking at the spec sheet that says usable frequency from 55 to 5K? Better model it in a C4 cabinet and see what you really get. More like 80Hz. Loud enough to hear, more like 120Hz. Advertising does not change physics.

                            Now, as a inexpensive mid, looks like a budget winner. Cross at around 350 and 3.5K. It can reach an XT-25 which is about the cheapest true quality tweeter and at 400, makes almost almost any woofer viable. Dayton drivers seem to be overall half the price of the competition if you include the actual quality. Most are easy to use.

                            Might be fun to use a dozen on a side as a PA column speaker. Slap 4 12's into a sub column and fill a pretty decent size club.

                            FWIW, my desktops are FE85's in 3L.

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                            • #15
                              I know what F3 is and it was measured on my speaker, also it was presented to an audio expert and both bass and loudness did amaze him due to small enclosure.

                              I know well the human nature that tends to always trash people or prove them wrong. I understand that. But as we are civilised, we can try to fight this urges and remain either nice and helpfull or quiet. Any engineer should feel the challenge in this topic and would spend his time to actualy find a better speaker for under 60€ instead of trying to fight with me over something that i didnt even ask in the first place.

                              I made the question of this topic very simple. And that is, is there a speaker for 60€ or 60$ that will give me the same F3 as a 15€ TCP115-4 and has better sensitivity (even if its juist 3dB aka ~23%). Can't make it any simpler. I put all speakers suggested into a winISD and QSpeaker and they all perform worse, both in F3 and in max SPL. Aside from that, i tested probably around 30 woofer in winISD and didn't find a single one that will perform better in 4L enclosure. So unless you have a suggestion for speakers, please, no need to comment and trash this topic. I will report any post that has a very clear intention to trash either me or this topic instead of being helpful.



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