Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Challenge: Is Dayton Audio TCP115-4 the ultimate budget woofer or ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • rpb
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
    (you guys are getting awful cranky - must be the Covid)

    Better let Jeff (our host) know what a "joke" 4" woofers are. Dayton's got 11 listed right now. Actually, 20% (of the 400 listed "woofers" - on site) are 4"ers - and SMALLer.

    Small driver technology has changed a LOT since the geek was on here last ...
    It's the covid. I'm really messed up. .

    For what he says he wants, the TCP is pretty much as good as he will find. I however don't consider a 4" driver ultimate in any way. Four inch woofers make OK mid-ranges though. I don't blame PE for selling tiny toy woofers. They need to make all the money they can, and for some strange reason, guys build tiny speakers with these things. I don't see the attraction myself.



    Leave a comment:


  • SentinelAeon
    replied
    So i made 4 identical speakers with the daytons, sold 3 of them and kept 1 for myself. So while listening to it, i was wondering if i could make it louder if i was willing to spend more money on it. So i went browsing and put the woofers into winISD. The reason i made this thread was that i couldn't find a better one and thought that maybe someone attempted a similar project and knows of a better woofer driver.

    So the purpose of this thread was to see if i can further improve the parameters that i deem important or not I do slightly change the speakers depending on what my friends tell me they want, so far no one complained about the quality of the sound, which is normal i guess since most of them are used to listen to music on cheap 5$ pc speakers or even on a mobile phone. So lately most of the time, i am working on adding small things like like 3.5mm jack for pc connection, adding the USB-A port so the person can charge his mobile phone with the speaker, a friend even asked me if i could make him a speaker that would have a special storage inside for his ciggaretes and lighter. But all in all, this is for people who want a very cheap speaker that can be loud and has bass. It was never meant to compete in sound quality with some expensive audiophile systems, it was meant to provide cheap entertainment to friends, me having fun building it and learning new things (i am a computer science engineer by degree, but have no formal knowledge of electronics and audio, i learn as i go).


    Anything apart from F3, loudness, budget and portability (must fit into a backpack) is not important - those speakers are used for partying where people are drinking beer and want to listen to their favourite song as loud as possible. I added a youtube link to 1 of the speakers, just to give you an idea, recorded with mobile phones horrible mic that can't properly record bass for some reason. This one was sold, added the picture of the one that is mine, identical specs with added Knonos symbol. Also added graph from winISD, currently it shows 55Hz, could go as low as 46Hz, but i am actualy thinking of going up to 60Hz F3 to get a tiny boost in loudness.

    Now that i explained things better, i hope we can continue in civil tone. I never claimed that i am an expert, the reason i joined this forum is to learn from those who are the experts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vpg-N2zPLI
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • a4eaudio
    replied
    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    Go ahead and suggest a better driver for the OP if you can. You have to meet his specific requirements though.
    I don't think I can. His criteria are cheap, low F3 (for a 4" driver) and high SPL.
    The TCP115-4 is $12.50, goes low (for a 4" driver), has good xmax (for a 4: driver) and sounds pretty good. The OP really wanted something higher sensitivity (I think in another thread) but the 4 ohm version at 86.8db isn't bad for a 4" driver. I think it likely is the "ultimate budget woofer" for his purposes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Roemer
    replied
    (you guys are getting awful cranky - must be the Covid)

    Better let Jeff (our host) know what a "joke" 4" woofers are. Dayton's got 11 listed right now. Actually, 20% (of the 400 listed "woofers" - on site) are 4"ers - and SMALLer.

    Small driver technology has changed a LOT since the geek was on here last ...

    Leave a comment:


  • tvrgeek
    replied
    " For that price you can buy 60 TCP115-4s and build line arrays with 30 per side!" And might make an outstanding club PA system!

    Tried to give a hint, even for a portable BT speaker ( new detail) efficiency is a bit of a red hearing.

    Leave a comment:


  • rpb
    replied
    Originally posted by a4eaudio View Post
    The ScanSpeak Revelator 26W/8861T 10" woofer has a surface area 6 times that of the TCP115-4, twice the xmax, 2db more senstivity at 8ohms and a lot less distortion! And only $382 per driver vs $12.50 for the TCP115-4! (For that price you can buy 60 TCP115-4s and build line arrays with 30 per side!)

    It seems like people want to reply to the question that they want to answer or the question that they wished the original poster had asked. SentinelAeon has a design goal and he wants to know if there is a speaker that can outperform the goals of the TCP115-4 in terms of the trade-offs of three things: price, F3 and sensitivity for a 4L Bluetooth speaker. This is not a $1,000 three-way floor stander and he didn't ask about sound quality or distortion. Maybe many of us would care more about sound quality or distortion, but then we can start our own threads and build our own speakers.

    PWR RYD you have ACTUALLY used the TCP115-4 and the SBA ceramic mids that are 8x the cost. I think we all get that the SBAs sound "better", but for a CHEAP and LOUD Bluetooth speaker is there something better than the TCP115-4? I think this is a really good question (that I don't know the answer to) as I think this driver is pretty impressive for $12.50, but not all that impressive compared to a 10" $380 driver.
    Go ahead and suggest a better driver for the OP if you can. You have to meet his specific requirements though. He will find something wrong with your suggestion, even if he doesn't really know what he's talking about. If you can't, then he proclaims the TCP as world champ by default based on specs, which may be questionable, and proudly tells the whole world that not even one person on this forum could find a better driver at even 4X the price. It's true because we can't prove to him that it's not.

    Leave a comment:


  • a4eaudio
    replied
    The ScanSpeak Revelator 26W/8861T 10" woofer has a surface area 6 times that of the TCP115-4, twice the xmax, 2db more senstivity at 8ohms and a lot less distortion! And only $382 per driver vs $12.50 for the TCP115-4! (For that price you can buy 60 TCP115-4s and build line arrays with 30 per side!)

    It seems like people want to reply to the question that they want to answer or the question that they wished the original poster had asked. SentinelAeon has a design goal and he wants to know if there is a speaker that can outperform the goals of the TCP115-4 in terms of the trade-offs of three things: price, F3 and sensitivity for a 4L Bluetooth speaker. This is not a $1,000 three-way floor stander and he didn't ask about sound quality or distortion. Maybe many of us would care more about sound quality or distortion, but then we can start our own threads and build our own speakers.

    PWR RYD you have ACTUALLY used the TCP115-4 and the SBA ceramic mids that are 8x the cost. I think we all get that the SBAs sound "better", but for a CHEAP and LOUD Bluetooth speaker is there something better than the TCP115-4? I think this is a really good question (that I don't know the answer to) as I think this driver is pretty impressive for $12.50, but not all that impressive compared to a 10" $380 driver.

    Leave a comment:


  • PWR RYD
    replied
    Originally posted by rpb View Post
    4" woofers are a joke, and you appear to be dead set on this one, and attempting to prove its superiority in a very narrow usage window. Why would throwing more money at a woofer make it better for your very limited, and specific criteria? Why would a manufacturer increase cost in attempt to design for that specific goal? Compare actual performance as opposed to some bogus specs on a data sheet. Face it, any larger woofer in a larger box will outperform this one. Go ahead. Report me.
    I agree. I guess I'm on report too

    Leave a comment:


  • rpb
    replied
    4" woofers are a joke, You appear to be dead set on this one, and attempting to prove its superiority in a very narrow usage window. Why would a manufacturer increase cost in attempt to design for that specific goal? Go ahead, report me.

    Leave a comment:


  • tvrgeek
    replied
    Do you know what doubling is? That is what you get with an extended shelf alignment. I prefer less than 100% distortion, but to each his own.
    Look at some of the Hi-VI and smaller SB units. Hard to beat Dayton on price, but they too make very good products.

    But, you seem to already know your answer is the only answer, so have fun.

    Leave a comment:


  • SentinelAeon
    replied
    I know what F3 is and it was measured on my speaker, also it was presented to an audio expert and both bass and loudness did amaze him due to small enclosure.

    I know well the human nature that tends to always trash people or prove them wrong. I understand that. But as we are civilised, we can try to fight this urges and remain either nice and helpfull or quiet. Any engineer should feel the challenge in this topic and would spend his time to actualy find a better speaker for under 60€ instead of trying to fight with me over something that i didnt even ask in the first place.

    I made the question of this topic very simple. And that is, is there a speaker for 60€ or 60$ that will give me the same F3 as a 15€ TCP115-4 and has better sensitivity (even if its juist 3dB aka ~23%). Can't make it any simpler. I put all speakers suggested into a winISD and QSpeaker and they all perform worse, both in F3 and in max SPL. Aside from that, i tested probably around 30 woofer in winISD and didn't find a single one that will perform better in 4L enclosure. So unless you have a suggestion for speakers, please, no need to comment and trash this topic. I will report any post that has a very clear intention to trash either me or this topic instead of being helpful.



    Leave a comment:


  • tvrgeek
    replied
    Key phrase " as far as bass and loudness" Cheap is useless if it is un-listenable. Cheaper drivers tend to need far more crossover, so that makes it more expensive. ( Except some Scan Speak or maybe the infamous B110.) Budget to me implies total system cost and if it meets the goals. 55Hz out of a 50cm-2 speaker won't fill a closet. Are you looking at the spec sheet that says usable frequency from 55 to 5K? Better model it in a C4 cabinet and see what you really get. More like 80Hz. Loud enough to hear, more like 120Hz. Advertising does not change physics.

    Now, as a inexpensive mid, looks like a budget winner. Cross at around 350 and 3.5K. It can reach an XT-25 which is about the cheapest true quality tweeter and at 400, makes almost almost any woofer viable. Dayton drivers seem to be overall half the price of the competition if you include the actual quality. Most are easy to use.

    Might be fun to use a dozen on a side as a PA column speaker. Slap 4 12's into a sub column and fill a pretty decent size club.

    FWIW, my desktops are FE85's in 3L.

    Leave a comment:


  • SentinelAeon
    replied
    TCP115 4 ohm is F3 55Hz in 4L. Its not so much that i am looking for a replacement, it is a simple funny fact that i went as high as 60€ which is 4x the price of TCP115 and i still couldnt find the speakers that will even match TCP115 performance in 4L enclosure as far as bass and loudness goes.

    Leave a comment:


  • tvrgeek
    replied
    Found the Silver Flute woofers very good for the price, but for total value, I think the Dayton RS series is hard to beat. Looking for 55Hz in 4L? Not asking for much are you!

    More efficient is going to give up something in quality, big time. Amplifiers are cheap! Car stereo drivers are typically more efficient. But, what are you basing this on? 3dB is barely preceptable. So 88 to 91 dB, you may not hear.

    Leave a comment:


  • kenny_k
    replied
    The DS115-8 is a nice speaker. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X