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Seas/Anarchy MTM Xover Critique Please

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  • #16
    A lot of people also use the 'Blender' for BSC purposes. I have never cared for the GUI or that all other programs in Excel need to be closed for it to function properly. This is why I still use Response Modeler myself. I like Unibox for the Box Modeler, but Jeff's WooferBox Modeler also works well and allows you to factor in EQ.

    To run the Excel programs, you need to have a working Office suite. Open Office and others will not do it.

    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
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    • #17
      I just simulate baffle step by designing a 3 to 6 db rising bass response. Pretty much like rpb stated in post #14...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Impious View Post

        Thanks for the info. If I cant get the response modeler to work (old PC, so for example Jeff B's PCD wouldn't work properly) I'll try to use this as a guide to shape the response instead
        A sim is limited. If you can measure, you can do a lot more with trial and error, but you need parts on hand. Typically, I do my x-overs by trial and error. (I have lots of parts on hand.) Sometimes I will sim something if I'm getting nowhere by trial and error. Sims are fun, and give you a starting point, or multiple starting points. I can take some drivers, and make five different x-overs.Three might sound about the same, and the other two might be a little different. The fun part is deciding which I prefer. The process of getting there is fun. If you find it not much fun, then maybe a sim is sufficient to tell you how to build it, and call it done.

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        • #19
          (the FREE) Tolvan's "Edge" lets you create a baffle and place different size drivers on it to see the effects of "baffle-step".

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rpb View Post

            A sim is limited. If you can measure, you can do a lot more with trial and error, but you need parts on hand. Typically, I do my x-overs by trial and error. (I have lots of parts on hand.) Sometimes I will sim something if I'm getting nowhere by trial and error. Sims are fun, and give you a starting point, or multiple starting points. I can take some drivers, and make five different x-overs.Three might sound about the same, and the other two might be a little different. The fun part is deciding which I prefer. The process of getting there is fun. If you find it not much fun, then maybe a sim is sufficient to tell you how to build it, and call it done.
            It's my first time so no parts on hand yet, and need the sim to give me at minimum a starting reference Although the sim will likely be how I build the first one for a baseline.

            That said I couldn't get Reponse Modeler to provide meaningful results. The baffle step and diffraction worked okay but everything else was haywire. I think it's just not running properly on my older PC.

            Think I'm just going to bite the bullet, build an enclosure and measure the darn thing. Seems easiest at this point. I already have the mic, preamp and REW as well as HOLM impulse from my car audio days. So any good links on measuring loudspeaker enclosures in a home would be appreciated and I can fudge it up from there

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            • #21
              Check this out:
              http://audio.claub.net/software/FRD_...0to%2010Hz.pdf
              Electronics engineer, woofer enthusiast, and musician.
              Wogg Music
              Published projects: PPA100 Bass Guitar Amp, ISO El-Cheapo Sub, Indy 8 2.1 powered sub, MicroSat, SuperNova Minimus

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Impious View Post

                It's my first time so no parts on hand yet, and need the sim to give me at minimum a starting reference Although the sim will likely be how I build the first one for a baseline.

                That said I couldn't get Reponse Modeler to provide meaningful results. The baffle step and diffraction worked okay but everything else was haywire. I think it's just not running properly on my older PC.

                Think I'm just going to bite the bullet, build an enclosure and measure the darn thing. Seems easiest at this point. I already have the mic, preamp and REW as well as HOLM impulse from my car audio days. So any good links on measuring loudspeaker enclosures in a home would be appreciated and I can fudge it up from there
                Use your sim to ballpark the coil value range needed for the woofers, and tweeter. Buy enough different values to reduce the odds of needing a second order. You can return unused parts up to 90 days I think. Buy a lot, and return about 70%. In a pinch, a coil can be unwound slightly to change ts value. Odds are good that the largest coil needed will be less than 2mH. Get several between 1mH and 1.8mH though.

                Measure with HOLM from about 3 feet. The measurements should look a lot like some of the ones in this thread. (Due to photobucket, most screens are unreadable, but some of the measurements are still OK.)
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ht=HolmImpulse
                I can show some more measurements if you need to see something else.


                Start with the woofer, and add parts just like you would in a sim. Or start with what the sim suggests. Then measure again. Use jumper wires to connect parts. Sweep at an spl level that is not annoying. Make sure the sweep spl is correct, and not unexpectedly loud. Turn the volume almost off initially, and raise it. You can hold the mic by hand if needed. Mine is strapped to a golf club shaft that I hold by hand pointed at the speaker. . Your body can affect the response, so something like the club shaft puts you further away. Don't worry about the distance being the same each time. Get the speaker up off the floor, and away from walls, or anything that can cause a reflection.

                Things that work in a sim, work in trial and error too. You can make a notch for a woofer peak. It should take the same values as the sim will suggest.

                Some of what you sim will not be accurate. What you measure is what you go with.

                When you get close, switch the input to your cd player, and play music. Even if it's just in the ballpark, you may find it can tell you a lot.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by rpb View Post

                  Use your sim to ballpark the coil value range needed for the woofers, and tweeter. Buy enough different values to reduce the odds of needing a second order. You can return unused parts up to 90 days I think. Buy a lot, and return about 70%. In a pinch, a coil can be unwound slightly to change ts value. Odds are good that the largest coil needed will be less than 2mH. Get several between 1mH and 1.8mH though.

                  Measure with HOLM from about 3 feet. The measurements should look a lot like some of the ones in this thread. (Due to photobucket, most screens are unreadable, but some of the measurements are still OK.)
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ht=HolmImpulse
                  I can show some more measurements if you need to see something else.


                  Start with the woofer, and add parts just like you would in a sim. Or start with what the sim suggests. Then measure again. Use jumper wires to connect parts. Sweep at an spl level that is not annoying. Make sure the sweep spl is correct, and not unexpectedly loud. Turn the volume almost off initially, and raise it. You can hold the mic by hand if needed. Mine is strapped to a golf club shaft that I hold by hand pointed at the speaker. . Your body can affect the response, so something like the club shaft puts you further away. Don't worry about the distance being the same each time. Get the speaker up off the floor, and away from walls, or anything that can cause a reflection.

                  Things that work in a sim, work in trial and error too. You can make a notch for a woofer peak. It should take the same values as the sim will suggest.

                  Some of what you sim will not be accurate. What you measure is what you go with.

                  When you get close, switch the input to your cd player, and play music. Even if it's just in the ballpark, you may find it can tell you a lot.
                  Thanks. Will give it a try.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Simulations get you started. Raw published curves are great for selecting the drivers, but fall way short when you try to actually build them. One has to measure in place.

                    I found with the Seas, one has to gently slope off the top end. A Zobel may aid in it. The baffle matters a lot, so prototype and measure in place. Minimum of 1/2 inch radius on the edges or they wil be harsh. Done right, very very good. ( Just bought another to use for my center, paired with Dayton RS150's) I found the metal version to be a little easier to use but am sticking with the soft as that is what my AV mains have and I know how to deal with it.

                    I use PSD Lite for my crossover modeling. I found it helps when I am thinking of what to change after I measure/listen to reality.

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