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  • Noob wanting to build some mains

    I want to build a new set of mains for my HT. I’d like something like the older fusion my and was thinking of using the Dayton rs 8” drivers. Would anyone be willing to help me with this ?

  • #2
    I am a big fan of the Dayton RS. Hard to beat for the money, but like all metal cones, they take some care to keep away from the cone break-up. An 8 inch is just not going to make a great 2-way, but can make a very nice full range 3-way. ( I have no need, but the 8 inch RS with the RS100 and an XT25g might be a good budget combination)

    Now, think about this. As a HT system, you really do not need 30Hz mains as the AVR will cross to the sub higher than that. The smaller RS150 can reach high enough to do a 2-way with steep crossovers and even sealed works fine @ 70 cross to the sub. I think an RS150-8 with an SB SB21RDC-C000-4 would make a very nice system. Then add a sub or two. A pair of 12 inch subs and the 150's even in sealed boxes can do you well. A good single 6 can produce hearing damage levels in the typical room, so there is not really any need for more, especially when you would have a center with two more.

    Even with the auto-eq on modern receivers, I prefer the center to be very similar to the mains. Nothing is worse that a voice moving across the screen and it changes character as it goes from main to center to main. My HT system is RS150-8s with Seas tweeters. Center is two RS150-4's and the same tweeter. Using an LR-4 target crossover which comes out around 1900 Hz. A shade low for the Seas which is why I think the SB is a better match. I have no experience with the Dayton tweeters. Some speak highly of them for the price. Again, the RS drivers need steep crossovers. Don't even dream of a textbook first order.

    Another option is the same but use DeApolitto alignment. So all three are two RS150-4s MTM. A little tricky as it is third order, so you may need another filter on the woofer ( I like a Zobel). This configuration has big advantages in controlling dispersion. O'l Joe knew what he was doing. All MTM are not DeApolitto alignment. Cabinets are twice as big though. If big macho cabinets are your thing, One can always build a 10 inch sub into each.

    So, pick the drivers you think you may want. Download the acoustic and impedance files. Stuff them into a box simulator to see if the driver will do on the low end. Play around and see if you can match the tweeter. Try to get less than 2 dB ripple in the simulators. Check back in with your progress. Build, measure, tweak. Do read up on edge diffraction and baffle step. Read up on acoustic center offset. IT MATTERS. It matters a lot.

    Or if you are just expecting someone else to do all the design work for free, just buy a kit. PE and Madisound have several. Building decent speakers is a long and detailed engineering process. It takes a lot of work. With dozens under my belt, it still takes weeks and that is quitting when "close enough". You can get some excellent help here if you put in some effort first. You need to do more than " use RS drivers" As you get into it, it gets to be really fun trying to make your idea actually work in the real world. I comment a lot on the laws of physics working the same for everyone, but the variables in the real world still leave room for "craft".

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Aceman View Post
      I want to build a new set of mains for my HT. I’d like something like the older fusion my and was thinking of using the Dayton rs 8” drivers. Would anyone be willing to help me with this ?
      There's help available, but designing a speaker from the ground up is the better option, as opposed to designing a speaker like someone else's design. How hard core are your intents? Are you looking to play nonstop action movies at high spl, or are you more interested in a basic, but capable system?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tvrgeek View Post
        I am a big fan of the Dayton RS. Hard to beat for the money, but like all metal cones, they take some care to keep away from the cone break-up. An 8 inch is just not going to make a great 2-way, but can make a very nice full range 3-way. ( I have no need, but the 8 inch RS with the RS100 and an XT25g might be a good budget combination) Now, think about this. As a HT system, you really do not need 30Hz mains as the AVR will cross to the sub higher than that. The smaller RS150 can reach high enough to do a 2-way with steep crossovers and even sealed works fine @ 70 cross to the sub. I think an RS150-8 with an SB SB21RDC-C000-4 would make a very nice system. Then add a sub or two. A pair of 12 inch subs and the 150's even in sealed boxes can do you well. A good single 6 can produce hearing damage levels in the typical room, so there is not really any need for more, especially when you would have a center with two more. Even with the auto-eq on modern receivers, I prefer the center to be very similar to the mains. Nothing is worse that a voice moving across the screen and it changes character as it goes from main to center to main. My HT system is RS150-8s with Seas tweeters. Center is two RS150-4's and the same tweeter. Using an LR-4 target crossover which comes out around 1900 Hz. A shade low for the Seas which is why I think the SB is a better match. I have no experience with the Dayton tweeters. Some speak highly of them for the price. Again, the RS drivers need steep crossovers. Don't even dream of a textbook first order. Another option is the same but use DeApolitto alignment. So all three are two RS150-4s MTM. A little tricky as it is third order, so you may need another filter on the woofer ( I like a Zobel). This configuration has big advantages in controlling dispersion. O'l Joe knew what he was doing. All MTM are not DeApolitto alignment. Cabinets are twice as big though. If big macho cabinets are your thing, One can always build a 10 inch sub into each. So, pick the drivers you think you may want. Download the acoustic and impedance files. Stuff them into a box simulator to see if the driver will do on the low end. Play around and see if you can match the tweeter. Try to get less than 2 dB ripple in the simulators. Check back in with your progress. Build, measure, tweak. Do read up on edge diffraction and baffle step. Read up on acoustic center offset. IT MATTERS. It matters a lot. Or if you are just expecting someone else to do all the design work for free, just buy a kit. PE and Madisound have several. Building decent speakers is a long and detailed engineering process. It takes a lot of work. With dozens under my belt, it still takes weeks and that is quitting when "close enough". You can get some excellent help here if you put in some effort first. You need to do more than " use RS drivers" As you get into it, it gets to be really fun trying to make your idea actually work in the real world. I comment a lot on the laws of physics working the same for everyone, but the variables in the real world still leave room for "craft".
        Originally posted by tvrgeek View Post
        I am a big fan of the Dayton RS. Hard to beat for the money, but like all metal cones, they take some care to keep away from the cone break-up. An 8 inch is just not going to make a great 2-way, but can make a very nice full range 3-way. ( I have no need, but the 8 inch RS with the RS100 and an XT25g might be a good budget combination) Now, think about this. As a HT system, you really do not need 30Hz mains as the AVR will cross to the sub higher than that. The smaller RS150 can reach high enough to do a 2-way with steep crossovers and even sealed works fine @ 70 cross to the sub. I think an RS150-8 with an SB SB21RDC-C000-4 would make a very nice system. Then add a sub or two. A pair of 12 inch subs and the 150's even in sealed boxes can do you well. A good single 6 can produce hearing damage levels in the typical room, so there is not really any need for more, especially when you would have a center with two more. Even with the auto-eq on modern receivers, I prefer the center to be very similar to the mains. Nothing is worse that a voice moving across the screen and it changes character as it goes from main to center to main. My HT system is RS150-8s with Seas tweeters. Center is two RS150-4's and the same tweeter. Using an LR-4 target crossover which comes out around 1900 Hz. A shade low for the Seas which is why I think the SB is a better match. I have no experience with the Dayton tweeters. Some speak highly of them for the price. Again, the RS drivers need steep crossovers. Don't even dream of a textbook first order. Another option is the same but use DeApolitto alignment. So all three are two RS150-4s MTM. A little tricky as it is third order, so you may need another filter on the woofer ( I like a Zobel). This configuration has big advantages in controlling dispersion. O'l Joe knew what he was doing. All MTM are not DeApolitto alignment. Cabinets are twice as big though. If big macho cabinets are your thing, One can always build a 10 inch sub into each. So, pick the drivers you think you may want. Download the acoustic and impedance files. Stuff them into a box simulator to see if the driver will do on the low end. Play around and see if you can match the tweeter. Try to get less than 2 dB ripple in the simulators. Check back in with your progress. Build, measure, tweak. Do read up on edge diffraction and baffle step. Read up on acoustic center offset. IT MATTERS. It matters a lot. Or if you are just expecting someone else to do all the design work for free, just buy a kit. PE and Madisound have several. Building decent speakers is a long and detailed engineering process. It takes a lot of work. With dozens under my belt, it still takes weeks and that is quitting when "close enough". You can get some excellent help here if you put in some effort first. You need to do more than " use RS drivers" As you get into it, it gets to be really fun trying to make your idea actually work in the real world. I comment a lot on the laws of physics working the same for everyone, but the variables in the real world still leave room for "craft".
        Thanks for all your great advice. I’ll admit I’m a total noob when it comes to this. I’ve only built some overnight sensation (2pairs) and a 12” sub (the hammer). It’s hard for me to buy kits as they normally run anywhere from 2-400 extra with shipping and exchange rates. I’ve looked for public plans that I could copy but haven’t had much luck. Do you know of any that would be using what you mentioned rs150’s ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Aceman View Post
          Thanks for all your great advice. I’ll admit I’m a total noob when it comes to this. I’ve only built some overnight sensation (2pairs) and a 12” sub (the hammer). It’s hard for me to buy kits as they normally run anywhere from 2-400 extra with shipping and exchange rates. I’ve looked for public plans that I could copy but haven’t had much luck. Do you know of any that would be using what you mentioned rs150’s ?
          What is your location? Can you measure? How big of a speaker is ideal? I built small mains with a 6.5" woofer. My sub provides the "excitement" factor with good action movies.

          Do you need 8 ohm speakers, or is 4 ohm also an option?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rpb View Post
            What is your location? Can you measure? How big of a speaker is ideal? I built small mains with a 6.5" woofer. My sub provides the "excitement" factor with good action movies. Do you need 8 ohm speakers, or is 4 ohm also an option?
            My location is toronto area. I have no measuring mics yet, it’s in the plans along with a minidsp. I most watch action movies at a med to high spl if I can. I’m not sure what ohm would be best for me.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Aceman View Post
              ... It’s hard for me to buy kits as they normally run anywhere from 2-400 extra with shipping and exchange rates. I’ve looked for public plans that I could copy but haven’t had much luck. ...
              While kits can be very convenient, the other solution is to build a "proven design", i.e., the design is available but you'll need to procure the drivers, parts and build the cabinets. tvrgeek is right that building a speaker is not an easy project. However, if you are interested in speaker building as a hobby then you might as well jump in and try to design one with help from the forum.

              On the other hand, if you just want to benefit from the bang-for-the-buck advantage of DIY then building a proven design is the way to go. Share whether you will use a sub or two, are there limitations on size, preference on floor standing vs bookshelf, how loud do you listen, room size, amplifier you will likely use, etc. and you will get a lot of good feedback here.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by a4eaudio View Post
                While kits can be very convenient, the other solution is to build a "proven design", i.e., the design is available but you'll need to procure the drivers, parts and build the cabinets. tvrgeek is right that building a speaker is not an easy project. However, if you are interested in speaker building as a hobby then you might as well jump in and try to design one with help from the forum. On the other hand, if you just want to benefit from the bang-for-the-buck advantage of DIY then building a proven design is the way to go. Share whether you will use a sub or two, are there limitations on size, preference on floor standing vs bookshelf, how loud do you listen, room size, amplifier you will likely use, etc. and you will get a lot of good feedback here.
                I’m all for a proven design and finding the parts. I have a sub and the plan is for another one after I build my mains as they will be sitting of my subs. This is the space I’m working with, my original plan was for a HT-8 until I found out how much extra it would cost me. When I watch movies I play them as loud as I can lol depending who’s home

                Comment


                • #9
                  Check your amp, and see if it requires 6 ohm minimum speakers, or if a 4 ohm will work.. Look on the back near the speaker connections.

                  I liked Iron man, and U571, T2, etc. Hard to find new movies. Any suggestions? Umbrella academy is a good action / tv show.

                  If you have a beefy center, it should handle a lot of the spl. I don't currently use one, but I have in the past. A 10" 2-way can have good punch. I'd prefer the tweeter close to the screen. Looks like you have some room for a 8" 2-way there at most. A small tweeter helps. I like the CSS LD22.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rpb View Post
                    Check your amp, and see if it requires 6 ohm minimum speakers, or if a 4 ohm will work.. Look on the back near the speaker connections. I liked Iron man, and U571, T2, etc. Hard to find new movies. Any suggestions? Umbrella academy is a good action / tv show. If you have a beefy center, it should handle a lot of the spl. I don't currently use one, but I have in the past. A 10" 2-way can have good punch. I'd prefer the tweeter close to the screen. Looks like you have some room for a 8" 2-way there at most. A small tweeter helps. I like the CSS LD22.
                    Seems to be 8ohm it’s a pioneer elite vsx-23. The new greyhound movie was pretty good or the Hanna tv show is good too. Right now my center is a klipsch rc-25 I believe.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So the mains need to be 8 ohm. Do you like the current center, or plan to replace it?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rpb View Post
                        So the mains need to be 8 ohm. Do you like the current center, or plan to replace it?
                        I like it but plan on replacing it. Basically I’m redoing all my speakers. I started with a sub, for one I didn’t have one and two I need the speakers to sit on top of it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think a 6.5" 2-way would be good. A 3-way is overkill, but has advantages when you play it loud. Looks like a tall speaker for mains would be a good thing, so a 3-way might be an option. It's all about trade-offs though. A 3-way usually costs more. An 8" 2-way might be the sweet spot, but you need a good tweeter, which increases the cost. I think an RS150 is too small for what you want.

                          Someone should chime in any time with some existing designs that might work. What size box would you prefer?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh yeah, I forgot possibly the most important question...how much are you willing to spend?

                            Per the user manual, I think you can do 6 ohm speakers.


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                            • #15
                              Toronto, like in Canada? Solen.ca is a Canadian company with speaker stuff, including kits.

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