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  • #16
    Have you tried contacting Cerwin Vega about a current replacement driver? They are still in business as far as I know.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by AEIOU View Post

      Yeah, I would have done the same. Personally, I loathe Cerwin Vega. Someone gave me a large pair of very cheap JBL and I immediately flipped them, made myself a quick and easy $100. People go for the name.
      Lol! Never heard them. Gotta think the old C-V woofers still put out some bass. Or at least more than the Peaveys that went in there.
      Francis

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      • #18
        Could you take some pictures of the crossover in there, or does anyone know what the woofer's low-pass is made of?

        A short bit of searching seems to say the woofer and mid cross around 400hz, so there might be a decent chance for something else to work alright in there (maybe with a notch added if the replacement has some peaky mids/distortion)....I'm guessing it might be a simple single-part lowpass though, so that might be harder to work around.


        If the official replacement speakers are too rare and/or too expensive, you might want to see how other 12inch pro/PA drivers (like the Dayton PA310-8 for example) model along with the LowPass in that box. I think the box-size itself should be okay down to about 50hz with a speaker like that...so it wouldn't reach super deep, but it'll still be deep enough for most music and it'll be really loud. Depending on the port dimensions, you might also need to switch to a shorter tube length..but I'm betting the original speakers probably had a similar box/port demand as a modern PA/pro woofer as-is. So you might be able to use something similar enough as a near drop-in replacement and simply check if regular or reverse polarity on the woofer works best for your setup.
        Last edited by LOUT; 09-09-2020, 02:41 PM.
        My first 2way build

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        • #19
          Originally posted by LOUT View Post
          you might want to see how other 12inch pro/PA drivers (like the Dayton PA310-8 for example) model along with the LowPass in that box.
          The problem now is that someone put pro drivers into a home hi-fi box. He needs to find a compatible home hi-fi woofer.

          www.billfitzmaurice.com
          www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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          • #20
            This place has original replacements https://reverb.com/item/35026587-rep...ms-1-000w-peak Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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            • #21
              Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
              The problem now is that someone put pro drivers into a home hi-fi box. He needs to find a compatible home hi-fi woofer.
              I could be wrong, but it sounds like the original CVega woofers were light-weight and loud/efficient but not super deep. If so, I think a similarly efficient Pro/PA driver that can also reach low enough for music in that box-size should be a decent replacement.
              That Dayton should be around 95-96db sensitive, able to reach F3 around 50-55hz in a 2-1.75cu box with a short port, and it should be able to output a little over 115db@1m down to ~45hz before getting flabby. It also appears to have a slightly nicer mid/high-rolloff compared to some other large woofers by its lack of a 1.2k-1.8k peak which I'm hoping will help it be a little friendlier for non-ideal LowPass via reusing the original.

              I'm guessing the current Peavey is both less sensitive and less able to reach deep compared to the Dayton PA310-8 or similar Pro/PA woofers. It sounds like the current Peavey isn't loud enough, while that Dayton or a similar woofer should be some of the louder 12incher's available.


              It might also be worth making sure the CVega crossover isn't partially dead and soaking the lows that should be going to the woofer. If it isn't too much trouble, simply connecting the woofer direct to the terminals and disconnecting the XO and mid+tweeter altogether to see how the lows sound with that Peavey by itself could be a quick sanity check..to help make sure the low-end sounds about the same with and without the XO+mid+tweeter. I'm pretty sure a failing XO is more likely to mess up the mids/highs and leave the woofer alone or playing higher frequencies than it should rather than making it overall quieter or thinner, but it shouldn't hurt to check if it's not too much of a hassle.


              EDIT: It does look like most of the current CV 12" woofers are rated around only 85db sensitivity...I'm not sure if they're just different from the older models or maybe conservatively spec'ed for some reason or if the originals really were low-sensitivity speakers? I've always heard CV tended to straddle the line between HomeAudio and ProAudio, but these look more like Home or even Car woofer specs.
              If these current models are similar to the originals, then it looks like I was very wrong, but then the originals would also be quiet (but low-reaching) until they're fed a boatload of power.
              Color me confused, but willing to learn, lol.

              EDIT: pt2. Okay, nevermind. All the current CV 12"s I was seeing are heavy woven cones and surrounds compared to the original's paper cone and foam surround...completely different animals. The world is back to making sense. *pheww
              My first 2way build

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              • #22
                Originally posted by fpitas View Post
                Bizarre they used 16 ohm drivers. Are 16 ohm instrument drivers still common? For use with tube amps, I would guess?
                More likely 4 of them in a guitar amp cabinet, 4 Ohm.

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                • #23
                  FWIW, AT series CV were cream of the crop of CV's lineup, and in testing shown by other members here on this forum, actually measure half-ways decent. Are they JBL? No, but CV did what they were supposed to. I would think a genuine replacement driver might be hard to get, but maybe see about matching the box performance and than adapt the system if you plan on keeping them.

                  Later,
                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

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                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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                  • #24
                    I've had several CV speakers along with Pioneer HPM100, JBL L88, Klipsch Cornwals and some others. The CVs did well against all of those. They all had one thing in common... sub-standard crossover networks. The HPM100s were a total mess. If the OPer would determine the box dimensions and tuning. They might find the Beyma 12BR70 to work well. In the CVs I had the first thing was to add L-pads to the mids and highs. The name plates even had mounting for those. Adjusting those levels allone was an improvement. After that the crossover needs a complete redesign or should I say "design". CV 12" woofers were 93db but 4 ohms so they claimed 96db them with the big peaks in the mids and highs claimed higher sens. for the system. Unlike the HPMs and L88s the CVs had a reasonably close box alignment.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                      FWIW, AT series CV were cream of the crop of CV's lineup, and in testing shown by other members here on this forum, actually measure half-ways decent. Are they JBL? No, but CV did what they were supposed to. I would think a genuine replacement driver might be hard to get, but maybe see about matching the box performance and than adapt the system if you plan on keeping them.

                      Later,
                      Wolf
                      Halfway decent, with the other half being crap.

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                      • #26
                        In college I worked in an audio shop and we sold CV, Pioneer HMP, EPI, EV, SAE electrostatics and some house brand. We sold a ton of CVs to the dorm rats. They sizzled and boomed and generally displayed well in the shop - very forward in every way. Not to be snarky but I wouldn't bother restoring a pair to original condition.

                        I thought the HPM 100s we're much more refined for the day. The SAE MK XIIs with 3 electrostatic tweeters were a surprise - 3 electro panels, a weird cotton stuffed midrange and a beast of a 12" Gauss woofer. Beautiful walnut cabinets and weighed 85lbs each. I had a pair and really wish I had hung on to them. I've been looking for another pair for twenty years, no luck.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dwigle View Post
                          In college I worked in an audio shop and we sold CV, Pioneer HMP, EPI, EV, SAE electrostatics and some house brand. We sold a ton of CVs to the dorm rats. They sizzled and boomed and generally displayed well in the shop - very forward in every way. Not to be snarky but I wouldn't bother restoring a pair to original condition.

                          I thought the HPM 100s we're much more refined for the day. The SAE MK XIIs with 3 electrostatic tweeters were a surprise - 3 electro panels, a weird cotton stuffed midrange and a beast of a 12" Gauss woofer. Beautiful walnut cabinets and weighed 85lbs each. I had a pair and really wish I had hung on to them. I've been looking for another pair for twenty years, no luck.
                          I'm not sure vintage speakers are held to modern standards by their aficionados. Even so, it's a repeating pattern that people buy vintage and find that they're poorly restored. Some of the Altecs I've seen were a mix and match of the cheapest possible replacement crap that couldn't possibly work properly.
                          Francis

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by fpitas View Post

                            I'm not sure vintage speakers are held to modern standards by their aficionados. Even so, it's a repeating pattern that people buy vintage and find that they're poorly restored. Some of the Altecs I've seen were a mix and match of the cheapest possible replacement crap that couldn't possibly work properly.
                            agreed, I'd be very disappointed to find a Valencia restored with car audio drivers. I had a friend who thought he was buying a pair of Altecs with 604e Duplex drivers. They had been substituted with 15" Tannoy Reds. Not a bad trade!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dwigle View Post

                              agreed, I'd be very disappointed to find a Valencia restored with car audio drivers. I had a friend who thought he was buying a pair of Altecs with 604e Duplex drivers. They had been substituted with 15" Tannoy Reds. Not a bad trade!
                              Well, that's not so bad. A bit annoying if you wanted Altecs, but still.
                              Francis

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                              • #30
                                C-V really started it all.

                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensurround

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