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Fast tracking my knowledge of compression driver and throat diameters

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  • Trdat
    replied
    What would be a better solution? Grounding my old apartment or just using a isolator between my crossover and amplifier? Or both?

    I mean is the isolator going to work for sure? and will it effect the sound? I might go with a cheap one and not the jenzen version...

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  • Trdat
    replied
    Originally posted by fpitas View Post

    I made a balanced pad out of 1% resistors, and put them in a male to female XLR adapter. YMMV, and all that. Also, off the shelf 600 ohm pads are available in XLR format for professional use.

    I was just trying to help. If you don't like the advice, ignore it.
    Oh, yes I have seen something like the pads you mention available, Ill check them out.

    Na, mate any advice even if not down my alley is knowledge and I am eager to learn. Appreciate it.

    I got to get to the bottom of this, the noise is killing me and I cant even take a measurement. I hope this doesn't plague a digital crossover setup when I switch to that.

    Anyway, I think I might have to read more into ground loop issues. Cause my XM66 and DBX both have the same amount of hiss and hum. The XM66 never had the hiss/hum in my previous standard setup for subwoofer duties. So for it to have so much noise something is not right, its not the crossover itself, leading me to think it can be a ground loop issue.

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  • fpitas
    replied
    Originally posted by Trdat View Post

    Okay, padding great. So do I put a resistor in front of it and what value?

    Would grounding the apartment help fix the ground loop issue?
    I made a balanced pad out of 1% resistors, and put them in a male to female XLR adapter. YMMV, and all that. Also, off the shelf 600 ohm pads are available in XLR format for professional use.

    I was just trying to help. If you don't like the advice, ignore it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trdat
    replied
    Originally posted by fpitas View Post

    Well, my hiss through the horns is inaudible from the padding. Hum must be some single-ended problem, like Bill alluded to. Ground loop, that sort of thing.
    Okay, padding great. So do I put a resistor in front of it and what value?

    Would grounding the apartment help fix the ground loop issue?

    Leave a comment:


  • fpitas
    replied
    Originally posted by Trdat View Post
    So in laymans terms what can I do? Other than padding down, I mean there has to be a solution to this what do others do with Biamping? Their essentially using similar equipment.

    Even when I tried with the whole chain XLR same hiss through tweeter and hum through woofer.

    Well, my hiss through the horns is inaudible from the padding. Hum must be some single-ended problem, like Bill alluded to. Ground loop, that sort of thing.

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  • Trdat
    replied
    So in laymans terms what can I do? Other than padding down, I mean there has to be a solution to this what do others do with Biamping? Their essentially using similar equipment.

    Even when I tried with the whole chain XLR same hiss through tweeter and hum through woofer.


    Leave a comment:


  • fpitas
    replied
    Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
    That won't aid in the S/N department, but it's not necessary anyway. You don't hear hiss or hum through high end pro systems because they're high end. That means S/N in excess of -100dB throughout the signal chain and no unbalanced connections.
    I understand your point, but it did help with my DCX2496. The hiss doesn't change with output level; so after padding the outputs the hiss was inaudible, but of course I had to turn the level up proportionately. Studying the op-amp data, the distortion doesn't rise much (or any) doing that, so win-win. About balanced vs unbalanced no argument. And RCA jacks are the scourge of audio.

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  • billfitzmaurice
    replied
    That won't aid in the S/N department, but it's not necessary anyway. You don't hear hiss or hum through high end pro systems because they're high end. That means S/N in excess of -100dB throughout the signal chain and no unbalanced connections.

    Leave a comment:


  • fpitas
    replied
    Originally posted by Trdat View Post

    So, cabinets finished and all ready to go. I tried my set up. Unfortunately my XM66 crossover has a problem so I got to take a look at it or send it back so I had to use my DBX 234xl which has a horrendous hiss, so bad that I couldn't even take a measurement for my DSP as the signal to noise ratio was in the negative range. The XM66 also had a hiss, I thought the problem was related to the cheaper DBX but it seems both gave a hum and hiss from both the woofer and tweeter.

    My only option now is to try with digital crossovers with DSP, I just hope there is no hiss through that set up as well. UDIO-8>DAC>AMP>Speakers

    Anyway even without a measurement correction it sounded okay, yeh of course nothing special and constrained but average. I wanted to try with an active 2 way crossover first them head into digital crossovers but it seems I have no choice.
    Equipment meant for Pro use has a tremendous amount of output available, far more than most amps need, so you can often pad the outputs to reduce the hiss.

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  • Trdat
    replied
    Put it this way, when you install a new system we know it takes time to get used to the sound and adjust. We have all had days were we judge to quick and then realise it sounds good or bad compared to first judgement. But, mostly you know if you scrap it or keep listening. 2 days I haven't reverted back to my old system so something tells me the potential is there, what it becomes of it will have to see, I am sure its a long process.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trdat
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul O View Post

    In your defence.. the DE250 is one of the best 1" exit drivers on the market with a very smooth sound, and in home audio applications anyway people are crossing it way low to large pro sound low/mid drivers. This is a case where you should definitely try it and see, you will know pretty quick if the combo is going to deliver what you want to your satisfaction, and then you can decide if further changes are necessary given what you have recently been made aware of.
    Thanks, I am in process now in trying. Without any convolution sounds average, nothing to boast about but not bad at all. Unfortunately there is so much noise in the chain that I can't even take a measurement with Audiolense. Pity, cause I know what the improvement will be with DSP. My old convolutions already open it up.

    Anyway, I have to wait for more capacitors for tweeter protection and see how I can take a measurement or why I got this horrible hum/hiss. Iv'e never got the hang of ground loops, unless this noise is normal for the DBX?

    Leave a comment:


  • Trdat
    replied
    Originally posted by fpitas View Post

    Well, one guy gave us his horn-bashing opinion, and I was dumb enough to respond. But they are hard to get right at the best of times. Lots of learning curve. The amplifier matters too if you go active; you'll hear any crossover distortion because they're so sensitive. Once they're right though, the clarity and imaging are amazing. It was definitely worth the time I spent.
    So, cabinets finished and all ready to go. I tried my set up. Unfortunately my XM66 crossover has a problem so I got to take a look at it or send it back so I had to use my DBX 234xl which has a horrendous hiss, so bad that I couldn't even take a measurement for my DSP as the signal to noise ratio was in the negative range. The XM66 also had a hiss, I thought the problem was related to the cheaper DBX but it seems both gave a hum and hiss from both the woofer and tweeter.

    My only option now is to try with digital crossovers with DSP, I just hope there is no hiss through that set up as well. UDIO-8>DAC>AMP>Speakers

    Anyway even without a measurement correction it sounded okay, yeh of course nothing special and constrained but average. I wanted to try with an active 2 way crossover first them head into digital crossovers but it seems I have no choice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul O
    replied
    Originally posted by Trdat View Post

    I can see where I went wrong. I should of known from the get go that with the B&C DE250 and Parts express horn that the matching woofer was a 12 inch. I mean it was more than obvious in the Econowave thread, the 15 inch was attempted and not executed. The DiySound group version threw me off. I also should of known looking at many other variants that with a 15 inch a 2 inch compression driver was needed with a larger horn but I don't know how to do these calculations, I only emulate other designs and learn from by making mistakes.

    That said, I did mention before that I can very easily change the front baffle. I have checked and the PA Audio PH 4528 fits and I am sure I can find something similar. Also, changing the compression driver is not too hard as well. So, I will experiment with what i got and then upgrade when the chance arises.
    In your defence.. the DE250 is one of the best 1" exit drivers on the market with a very smooth sound, and in home audio applications anyway people are crossing it way low to large pro sound low/mid drivers. This is a case where you should definitely try it and see, you will know pretty quick if the combo is going to deliver what you want to your satisfaction, and then you can decide if further changes are necessary given what you have recently been made aware of.

    Leave a comment:


  • fpitas
    replied
    Originally posted by Trdat View Post

    I can see where I went wrong. I should of known from the get go that with the B&C DE250 and Parts express horn that the matching woofer was a 12 inch. I mean it was more than obvious in the Econowave thread, the 15 inch was attempted and not executed. The DiySound group version threw me off. I also should of known looking at many other variants that with a 15 inch a 2 inch compression driver was needed with a larger horn but I don't know how to do these calculations, I only emulate other designs and learn from by making mistakes.

    That said, I did mention before that I can very easily change the front baffle. I have checked and the PA Audio PH 4528 fits and I am sure I can find something similar. Also, changing the compression driver is not too hard as well. So, I will experiment with what i got and then upgrade when the chance arises.

    The thread turned into a horn bashing one, but enough info to keep my thirst going for knowledge. Ultimately I'm keen to see how it folds out.


    Well, one guy gave us his horn-bashing opinion, and I was dumb enough to respond. But they are hard to get right at the best of times. Lots of learning curve. The amplifier matters too if you go active; you'll hear any crossover distortion because they're so sensitive. Once they're right though, the clarity and imaging are amazing. It was definitely worth the time I spent.

    Leave a comment:


  • Trdat
    replied
    Originally posted by Paul O View Post

    No 15" should be operated above 1khz. Do you own any of these drivers yet or is the project still in the planning stage? The 15+1 combo is easily the worst PA speaker design possible.. just too many compromises have to be made to get only half decent results. Of course there are commercial examples that sound way better than they have any right to(Yamaha DXR15) but that box has world class engineering expertise behind it that a DIY effort just won't match... no offence intended.. I can't do it either. There are a select few 1" drivers that can operate this low but they often tradeoff highend response to get it or the amount of SPL that can be generated goes way down.
    You will have subs too right? If so there is no need for a 15" mid, you could downsize to 8" or 10" which will work much better with the crossover frequency needed for a 1" CD. If you're dead set on using 15's then you should be using a larger format CD to get the crossover as low as possible. With a 2" exit driver you will get vastly superior SQ with a lot less work, these larger diaphrams just perform so much better at midrange frequencies and the better examples can still produce respectable topend with some DSP help.
    I can see where I went wrong. I should of known from the get go that with the B&C DE250 and Parts express horn that the matching woofer was a 12 inch. I mean it was more than obvious in the Econowave thread, the 15 inch was attempted and not executed. The DiySound group version threw me off. I also should of known looking at many other variants that with a 15 inch a 2 inch compression driver was needed with a larger horn but I don't know how to do these calculations, I only emulate other designs and learn from by making mistakes.

    That said, I did mention before that I can very easily change the front baffle. I have checked and the PA Audio PH 4528 fits and I am sure I can find something similar. Also, changing the compression driver is not too hard as well. So, I will experiment with what i got and then upgrade when the chance arises.

    The thread turned into a horn bashing one, but enough info to keep my thirst going for knowledge. Ultimately I'm keen to see how it folds out.



    Leave a comment:

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