Speaker Wire - Does it matter? . . .

[Steve Lee]

You bet it does.

Thick (12 AWG OFC) is much better than 16 AWG OFC for low-end frequency response.



Just rewired my shop speakers and the difference caused me to have to re-EQ the system and the low frequencies (under 40 Hz) have been reduced by around 3 db using 16 AWG OFC.


Go 12 AWG-OFC for best results.


Later.

[Blenton]

I think it hard to push a signal from an amplifier to the speakers without it. I mean, you can always use those new dangled micro-spaceray-fi-wave thingies but at some pint the rubber has to meet the road. Unless you are Nicholai Tesla. Then you can just use mind control and giant spherical-but-pointy-at-parts contraption. to make it all work like magic...

[Steve Lee]

I am leaning towards fat magic OFC cable right now after this experiment.

Tesla died scrawny in a hotel room and no-one understood him for a very long time but now we have a car named after him on its way to Mars with a dummy driving it.

Best wishes, buddy - I do love you.

[djg]

Lift the veils, hear the spaces between the notes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjQJxeTANE

[billfitzmaurice]

And now you know what confirmation bias is. Heavier gauge wire reduces resistive losses, which can be audible with very long cables, but it won't affect frequency response. That requires changes in inductance and capacitance, and they only affect high frequency losses. Confirmation bias and placebo effect, however, allow you to hear anything you want to hear, or think that you hear.

[Steve Lee]

Cables are about 18 feet long each they are now 16 AWG OFC.

The old cables were 12 AWG lamp cord/zip-wire and approx the same length.

There is definitely a difference in the sound between the two types of cable and that may be due to many factors as suggested.

[Blenton]

That was weird - not sure what happened to the keyboard earlier.. Tesla musta transmogrified hisself into the the interwebs and hijacked sumfin.. (I’m not sure they will buy that.) [Hush.] {Both of yours shush ups. They mights discovers us..}

Anywho, I’ll try not to further derail this thread.

I have to admit that pretty much every time I’ve rewired any of my setups from 18 or 16 gauge to 12 gauge wire, I NOTICED THE EXACT SAME THING. There. I said it. I believe you. I’ve experienced the same thing. And I ain’t scerrred to say so.

The first time I noticed this “phenomenon” was in high school when I rewired my bronco. Had an old RF 4.6x running the fronts and subs; did nothing other than swap out the wiring and symtub the fatter cable through the door jambs and BAM! I thought I’d hit the loudness button or turned up the bass. Nope. And not only did the lower register sound more plentiful, but cleaner and easier, but with more oomph. Noticed the same thing with my home setup.

The maths will tell you it doesn’t matter one bit once you run 16 AWG unless you are pushing over 100 watts per channel, but my experience tells me otherwise. So that’s one concession I make - I try to run 12 or even 14 awg whenever possible.

[jhollander]

Many connections oxidize. Just removing and reconnecting can make the different you are hearing. If you think there's a difference do the double blind test with someone else changing the connections.

[Blenton]

That could very well have been the case for me...

[fpitas]

Yes. For that reason I use ring terminals on the wire ends, copper crush washers, and speaker terminals that allow wrenching. The normal "shove the flaky wires through the little holes" approach is doomed to develop problems.

[Kornbread]

Agreed, many times less than perfect connections and old wire that is in less than ideal condition. I'd have to question the gauge and condition of the wiring/connections in an old Bronco. (Buddy of mine had a 72' Bronco in HS. Sweet, sweet ride till he dropped me off one night then later pulled off the road to pee @45mph. Completely destroyed our shagin wagon. Folks, don't drink n drive.) I had some WalMart brand speaker wire for my surrounds that turned green after a couple years. Never again will I use that cheap junk. Yes, changing that wire out absolutely made a difference.
With that said, and I'll get hammered for this, speaker wire (apples to apples) can make a difference in the sound. Admittedly, on a scale of 1-100, it might rate a ~2, as in barely perceptible and elusive under the best of circumstances, but yeah, I'll go along with that.

[tomzarbo]

Don't shoot, I'm just asking a question...

...since the amount of current flowing is pretty low for high, and middle frequencies, and gets much higher as you go down in frequency to the 40 to 20 Hz range, could that be why Steve noticed a bit less bass? Being a greater percentage of the overall signal, the low frequencies were attenuated more?

Again, not saying this is the case, just asking those who know if that's possibly what happened.

TomZ

[billfitzmaurice]

Voltage swing determines cone excursion, not current. Series resistance affects voltage swing equally at all frequencies. Inductance and capacitance affect voltage swing differently based on frequency. If anything large gauge exotic cable constructions tend to have high inductance and capacitance, resulting in high frequency attenuation.

[Kornbread]

Since it was in a garage system, I also wonder about the length of the run. Maybe 16 was too small for a very long run? Could it have been a change in lcr/cable specs/loss of high freq. causing the bass to sound more full?

[fpitas]

Don't shoot, I'm just asking a question...

...since the amount of current flowing is pretty low for high, and middle frequencies, and gets much higher as you go down in frequency to the 40 to 20 Hz range, could that be why Steve noticed a bit less bass? Being a greater percentage of the overall signal, the low frequencies were attenuated more?

Again, not saying this is the case, just asking those who know if that's possibly what happened.

TomZ

There are two main effects of introducing resistance in series with a driver. The electrical damping factor is reduced, and the frequency response becomes modulated by the driver impedance forming a divider with the resistance.

Also something to consider is bad connections tend to be non-linear and introduce distortion.

[tvrgeek]

How many times does this BS have to come up? Do the math if you doubt it. 16 gauge zip as good as it gets. Voice coil warming has a bigger effect. Humidity and room temperature have a bigger effect. Can you hear 1/2 Hz difference in roll-off? OK, going to run 100 feet? Use 14 gauge. Hundreds of feet, then maybe 12.

If really really want to waste money, the first generation Monster cable was 11 gauge, nice and flexible and with the thicker than normal insulation the capacitance was not too bad so it was no worse than zip cord. Obviously a bad connection is not good. Distortion? Not really. Oxygen free is another marketing pile of fertilizer. You do know all your electronics are put together with LEAD. The studio has MILES of cables that are not magical back page magazine advertisement certified.

Quit reading color glossies and invest in better speakers.

[Blenton]

Quote: tvrgeek in a separate Help Me Choose a Tweeter thread: "..there's no such thing as overkill.."

[fpitas]

Part of the "magic" of some Monster cables was an RF termination to keep the amplifier happy. The one I saw was just a 100 ohm resistor at the speaker end. Rod Elliot discusses this effect:

https://www.sound-au.com/cable-z.htm

As Bill touched on, some pricey cables are very reactive, and actually cause amplifier instability.

[billfitzmaurice]

There are two main effects of introducing resistance in series with a driver. The electrical damping factor is reduced, and the frequency response becomes modulated by the driver impedance forming a divider with the resistance.

It takes a lot of series resistance to reduce damping factor enough to make any difference. The very influence of damping factor is highly exaggerated to begin with. http://www.cartchunk.org/audiotopics/DampingFactor.pdf