It gets expencive

[tvrgeek]

Now I figure as good as a SawStop PCS is, and it is a very good saw, it is like $3300 bucks at least to your shop floor. Just really hard to lay that out. True, instead of serious injury, you just get cut. Sure, it is heavy, smooth, and a darn decent saw. But gasp. Well, The Harvey 300 is on sale. I have a Harvey band saw and am very happy with it. Less than half the price and get a real riving knife, as heavy as a Powermatic. The other argument is what is a finger worth? I have almost had an accident twice in the 20 or so years I have used my Ridgid. The excuse is for the 3 HP, heavier and smoother. The bigger the woodworking tool, somehow the safer it seems. Used a tabletop TS once. Once was enough. Scared the daylights out of me.

Of course, it then teases you to add the router lift table. I found not the best results with my lock-miter bit on my DIY table. If done well, makes really nice tight cabinet corners except where you add a backup corner so you can do an inch radius for lower diffraction. Everything is a tradeoff!

I did talk myself out of a new variable speed drill press. Just going to fit a digital RPM counter to my old Delta and make a brake for the spindle so I can snug the keyless chuck.

Sure, DIY speaker is cheap. Couple hundred bucks for decent drivers. $3500 saw, $1500 Dust collector, $1000 drill, Oh yea the pole barn for a shop. Came with the house but finishing it was about $30K. So, tell me about your budget build! No, don't have a CNC to do my baffles. Router gigs, templates, jig saw. ( New Makita 18V is sweeeet. )

[djg]

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...-00-craigslist

[Billet]

Hand saws and blockplanes for me! Much safer and quieter. Good exercise too... And the dust just falls to the floor.

[billfitzmaurice]

I have a $100 saw, with a $300 fence, and a sliding top that I made. I made the table 48 inches wide, with one side of the table doubling as a router table, so it uses the same fence. You don't need an expensive saw, it's only a motor and a blade. It's the accessories that do the job, and most of those you can make. I never use band saws, they're the most dangerous tool there is.

[tvrgeek]

I have a $100 saw, with a $300 fence, and a sliding top that I made. I made the table 48 inches wide, with one side of the table doubling as a router table, so it uses the same fence. You don't need an expensive saw, it's only a motor and a blade. It's the accessories that do the job, and most of those you can make. I never use band saws, they're the most dangerous tool there is.

I could not disagree more. Band saws are thousands of times safer than a TS and much safer than even a miter saw. For one thing, they can't kick back. Small pieces just push away instead of fling. My dust collection is a lot better on the BS. Of course, with any saw, you can get stupid. Guess you have never used a "real" TS. Once I got a "real" BS, ( 17 inch Harvey) I use it a lot more. I consider it the safest accessory for my TS, as the TS is safest when I don't use it. A shaper is probably the second most dangerous tool. Does your DIY saw have a riving knife? If not, I would not get near it! They almost prevent kick back which is more than half of all serious accidents. We will agree, jigs are critical. Crosscut sled #1. My offset fence and good blade does as well as my jointer. I do better raised panels on the TS and my clamp-in place taper jig does not scare me like the simple angle jobs they sell. Gad are they dangerous.

One can do very good work with a track saw. Nice one is easier, but a DIY can do just about perfect cuts in sheet goods. A sheet of 2 inch foam board and a strait edge is all you need. I was amazed the difference between an old Craftsman circ saw and a new Skill. I thought the old Sears worked fine and it was all in the blade. Boy was I wrong.

Billet, I have and use my hand tools for cabinet work, but I'm not going to cut 3/4 inch MDF on a miter with a handsaw. Good for you if you can as it is not impossible.

Worst cut I ever got in my wood shop was from a chisel, just moving it on the bench.

[tomzarbo]

Bill, why are band saws dangerous in your opinion?
I've heard you suggest this before, I'm not sure why you say that. I use mine very little though, and usually with the 3/8" or 1/2" blade not more than an inch or two exposed.

I suspect with some folks having 5-6 inches of it exposed for tasks similar to re-sawing it may be a lot more dangerous, but mine is a cheap Harbor Freight Tools unit which had trouble with cutting 2" thick oak the other day (to clarify, the power was fine, but the graphite blocks that keep the blade centered didn't hold up very well as the blade didn't cut straight and I had to twist the piece a bit to keep it tracking straight.)

Like TVRgeek mentioned, they always 'pull' down, so the work is not likely to get 'flung' somewhere, and if the blade does break for some reason, wouldn't it just basically stop and not keep moving?

I do feel that I don't experience nearly the same level of 'danger' or 'cautiousness' when using my bandsaw as opposed to my table saw, especially with thicker hardwoods. Is that part of the problem do you think? The lack of caution folks experience when using it causes more injuries to to letting their guard down?

Just curious on why you think that.

TomZ

[billfitzmaurice]

Table saws don't kick back when used correctly, with a sliding top. Your assumptions about what I've used are as off the mark as most of the assumptions you've posted here.

[dwigle]

The Harvey 300 is on sale. I have a Harvey band saw and am very happy with it. )

I have never seen the Harvey brand, those 2 and 3hp tablesaws for $1k and $1.5k look very nice.

[Whitneyville1]

PROPERLY used, ALL power tools are safe, the problem is, people don't use them safely. The most dangerous power tool (based on emergency room visits) by far and away is a chain saw, even in the hands of a professional! That's why lumberjacks use MANUAL crosscut saws more than chain saws for cutting up felled logs (plus it's faster).
My half-Century-old Craftsman table saw with it's worse than worthless bladeguard and riving knife and Vega fence will cut a straight line if I pay attention. I'm old enough I don't see the point in buying a fancy saw to be sold at my estate sale for 10 cents on the dollar (which is the going rate).Be there with CASH and three STRONG buddies and a 3/4 ton long bed pick-up ready to haul it off, and they may throw in a planer and big 5HP air compressor for free. Kids need the house empty MONDAY when they fly home with Mom. Sunday afternoon deals will be made.

[tomzarbo]

Bill,
I hope my question didn't come off as accusing, but I'm really curious about why you feel band saws are dangerous.

I probably haven't used mine enough to know it's quirks and dangers believe it or not, I really only use it to cut curves in speaker ribs for the most part. I've maybe 1 to 2 hours total on it.

So what's your take on what makes them dangerous? Maybe I need to change how I use it.

Tom Zarbo

[Steve Lee]

Tom,

The way I see it is those flinging boards from their table saws are not using them correctly and not using enough blade depth which causes the material to ride-up the blade and get into a bind laterally against the fence and blade and then chicken-out and lose control over the material as it becomes unstable.

Band saws require that you keep your hands and fingers away from a very small but effective finger removing surface. Being overly focused upon other things can quickly lead to lost appendages - they use them in meat processing for a reason where miter saws and table saws are not well suited to that task.

[billfitzmaurice]

+1. Band saws are used by butchers because they're so effective at cutting through flesh and bone. There are measures that can be employed with other power tools to reduce, if not eliminate, the potential for accidents, but that's not the case with band saws.

[Dukk]

^This. My uncle was a butcher and missing part of a thumb due to a wayward bandsaw incident.

[billfitzmaurice]

TVR, I've had enough of you. On to my ignore list you go.

[tomzarbo]

Tom,
Band saws require that you keep your hands and fingers away from a very small but effective finger removing surface. Being overly focused upon other things can quickly lead to lost appendages - they use them in meat processing for a reason where miter saws and table saws are not well suited to that task.

+1. Band saws are used by butchers because they're so effective at cutting through flesh and bone. There are measures that can be employed with other power tools to reduce, if not eliminate, the potential for accidents, but that's not the case with band saws.

Okay, I get what you're talking about now. It is a lot of sharp, fast moving steel often flying right by your fingers with a band saw. I totally keep my fingies away from the table saw with push sticks to keep away from the sharp, spinny-parts, but with a band-saw, you often have to be fairly close to the blade... it makes sense what you're saying now that you said it.

In another thread I showed a pic of some rather small feet I'm making for a small set of speakers and I was within a few inches of the blade while I was cutting them out. I didn't feel the danger like I would have if I had my fingers that close to my table saw, but that doesn't mean it wasn't dangerous....



As you can see, my fingers had to be pretty close to the blade to get these cut, safe or not.

Also, I guess the reaction to things getting torqued out of square can be really bad on a table saw -- which we all have probably experienced, but not really with a band saw.
Twist the work on a bandsaw and the blade just twists a bit with you, do that on a table saw and it's going to try and bind up or shoot out... the riving knife and anti-kickback dogs may stop it from flying into your torso, but it's still not a fun experience, and you remember that when it happens. That kind of 'heart stopping' moment doesn't really happen with a band saw.

Thanks for the explanation guys, I'll make a conscious effort to be extra careful and concentrate when I use my band saw from now on.

TomZ

[a4eaudio]

Okay, I get what you're talking about now. It is a lot of sharp, fast moving steel often flying right by your fingers with a band saw. I totally keep my fingies away from the table saw with push sticks to keep away from the sharp, spinny-parts, but with a band-saw, you often have to be fairly close to the blade... it makes sense what you're saying now that you said it.

I have researched some of this before because I am trying to build my own table saw, but spent a few hours yesterday and today doing more. It seems people can be as opinionated on woodworking tools as they are tweeters. Some findings:

• Nothing conclusive on whether band saws or table saws cause more injuries. I did find anecdotes from ER doctors that they see more patients due to band saws. My guess is that there may be more injuries from band saws, but those are all going to be fingers getting cut (maybe even cut off) whereas I can imagine more significant injures resulting from a table saw operated unsafely.
• Injuries from power tools have been increasing quite a bit over the last several years and this is completely due to DIYers. Injuries among professional woodworkers/carpenters have remained steady.
• A big danger from tables saw is kickback, which is not going to be relevant for a band saw. Not only can you get struck by an object, the kickback can cause your hand to go into the blade (if there is no guard). However, to Tom's point above, there are many things you can do to ensure safer operation of the table saw whereas your fingers are always going to be pretty close to that band saw blade.
  • Riving knife
  • Blade guard
  • Push sticks
  • Cross-cut sled...
  • The other thing I found was about the table saw fence after watching some YouTube videos. In Europe it is very common to have a fence that stops near the blade whereas in the US most fences span the entire depth of the table saw. The shorter fence allows the wood to move away from the blade once it has been cut and can reduce the chance of kickback. I found this pretty interesting in that if I just bought off the shelf products from big-box home improvement stores I don't know that I would have ever seen one of these fences. (I just googled to try to find a good pic and hardly anything came up, but here is an interesting article www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/table-saw-safety-why-the-british-think-were-crazy/ )