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  • Center channel time

    First I made my mains that are a modded version for Jeff bagbys mtm speaker. Then form that I made a tm version that I use as my side surrounds. Now it’s time for the center. I’m leaning towards a wmtmw using the same rs180-8 as the woofers and rs150 as the mids. The tweeter I’ll keep then same although I wish I could use a horn. Do you think this should be sealed or ported ? I’m leaning towards ported, but then wondering how I would do that with 2 different drivers

  • #2
    What speaker am I suppose to be looking at ?

    Comment


    • #3
      It looks like one of the responses got deleted?

      Those are my inwalls for sale. One would probably make a good center in right mounting.

      ​​​​My khancenter is a center design probably like you're thinking and may be a better fit.

      I don't see the point of doing a center ported. Where your positing it close to a wall under and movies are mixed with with the center expected to have a sub, ported just doesn't make sense. Horn even less. At least to me. A sealed rs180 can dig pretty deep as my in-khans prove.

      While a wmtmw is funner. I find a wtmw plenty sufficient. I even think a wtm would be plenty fine and seriously considered it.
      - Ryan

      CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
      CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
      CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
      CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ---k--- View Post
        It looks like one of the responses got deleted? Those are my inwalls for sale. One would probably make a good center in right mounting. ​​​​My khancenter is a center design probably like you're thinking and may be a better fit. I don't see the point of doing a center ported. Where your positing it close to a wall under and movies are mixed with with the center expected to have a sub, ported just doesn't make sense. Horn even less. At least to me. A sealed rs180 can dig pretty deep as my in-khans prove. While a wmtmw is funner. I find a wtmw plenty sufficient. I even think a wtm would be plenty fine and seriously considered it.
        Only reason I was thinking of the horn is because I really love the look of the klipsch rc-64iii, and that’s the style im for some reason obsessed with lol. I was going to do all 4 woofers the same rs180’s but was told a wmtmw would sound better. I’d love to see more pics of your center.

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        • #5
          Here is my center: https://www.divine-audio.com/khancenter/

          Ah, you were thinking horn for the tweeter? My head is stuck in subwoofers these days. And I was thinking horn woofer....

          Anyway, the more drivers the better. Less work on each and the less distortion. But, a WMTMW will still have the off axis issues of a MTM. Adding the WW doesn't help that. If you sit directly in front, no problem. But, if you got people sitting off axis, they may have sub-optimum audio from speaker.

          What you're proposing with a WMTMW is basicly https://www.divine-audio.com/khanspire/ that is a big speaker.

          CJD and Jeff voice speakers slightly differently. So might not be absolute perfect match - though positioning makes as big of a difference.


          Honestly,
          Depending on your seating, if you're not off axis much, an MTM can be good. A lot of people do it. I built my brother the Ochocinco MTM for his center. I enjoy it. A TM is perfectly acceptable too. A center is used for HT, so it should have a sub woofer to go with it, so it doesn't need to extend down past 80 hz. So, if I were you, I'd take one of your TM surrounds and try it out. Then I'd hook the TMs up as mains and try one of your MTM out as a center. After you've done that, then decide how much more center you want/need.

          Also note, going from your current 2-way MTM or 2-way TM to a any 3-way is a huge leap in crossover difficulty. Are you up to designing it?



          - Ryan

          CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
          CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
          CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
          CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ---k--- View Post
            Here is my center: https://www.divine-audio.com/khancenter/ Ah, you were thinking horn for the tweeter? My head is stuck in subwoofers these days. And I was thinking horn woofer.... Anyway, the more drivers the better. Less work on each and the less distortion. But, a WMTMW will still have the off axis issues of a MTM. Adding the WW doesn't help that. If you sit directly in front, no problem. But, if you got people sitting off axis, they may have sub-optimum audio from speaker. What you're proposing with a WMTMW is basicly https://www.divine-audio.com/khanspire/ that is a big speaker. CJD and Jeff voice speakers slightly differently. So might not be absolute perfect match - though positioning makes as big of a difference. Honestly, Depending on your seating, if you're not off axis much, an MTM can be good. A lot of people do it. I built my brother the Ochocinco MTM for his center. I enjoy it. A TM is perfectly acceptable too. A center is used for HT, so it should have a sub woofer to go with it, so it doesn't need to extend down past 80 hz. So, if I were you, I'd take one of your TM surrounds and try it out. Then I'd hook the TMs up as mains and try one of your MTM out as a center. After you've done that, then decide how much more center you want/need. Also note, going from your current 2-way MTM or 2-way TM to a any 3-way is a huge leap in crossover difficulty. Are you up to designing it?
            Thanks for the great response. I’ve had a klipsch mtm center for the past 10+ years and I don’t really have a problem with it. I do sit just a tad off axis since I’m in a living room. I don’t know the first thing about making a xover lol but I have a guy from another forum that’s willing to help me. He’s the one the made my xover for the Tm’s I just finished. I checked out that link and that’s basically what I’m going for.

            Comment


            • #7
              If you got the space for a WMTMW, who am I to say no? It's overkill, but definitely fun.

              I'd still go sealed, because you don't need extended deep response. You're likely going to be close to the wall and floor, which will give the low end a boost. I cross my center with sealed RS180 at 50 to 60hz.

              BTW, just for your reference, to answer one of your initial questions, if you had a wmtmw, you'd only port the woofers. you wouldn't need to port the mids, because they would be crossed to the woofer around 300hz. porting something like the RS150 that'd you use as a mid only extends the bass from like 80hz to like 50-60 hz (these are just rough numbers from off the top of my head, I'm sure someone can give you the exact numbers, but should be close enough) . porting the mid wouldn't have little effect on the driver within the passband you're using it for.

              For voicing to have the best chance of matching, I'd keep the tweeter the same as your mains.

              I'd hope your crossover guy would give you the same response.
              - Ryan

              CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
              CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
              CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
              CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ---k--- View Post
                If you got the space for a WMTMW, who am I to say no? It's overkill, but definitely fun. I'd still go sealed, because you don't need extended deep response. You're likely going to be close to the wall and floor, which will give the low end a boost. I cross my center with sealed RS180 at 50 to 60hz. BTW, just for your reference, to answer one of your initial questions, if you had a wmtmw, you'd only port the woofers. you wouldn't need to port the mids, because they would be crossed to the woofer around 300hz. porting something like the RS150 that'd you use as a mid only extends the bass from like 80hz to like 50-60 hz (these are just rough numbers from off the top of my head, I'm sure someone can give you the exact numbers, but should be close enough) . porting the mid wouldn't have little effect on the driver within the passband you're using it for. For voicing to have the best chance of matching, I'd keep the tweeter the same as your mains. I'd hope your crossover guy would give you the same response.
                Thanks for you answer and fast response. I will probably go sealed like you mentioned. Is it over kill..... hell ya lol I could just make another mtm like my mains and call it a day but like you said where’s the fun in that. I’ll definitely be using the same tweeter. I’m trying to keep all the same tweeters and drivers in my whole system. And this center is like to do a atoms version of my tms and have everything match.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I take a different approach than —k— as most of my center channels are ported designs for a couple of reasons. Yes, I always use a sub with HT, but I feel that an f3 of 80hz for a center makes it sound too lean. There’s plenty of content in the center channel mix below 80hz and my AVR usually recognizes the center channel as a ‘large speaker’, so it pushes that content to the center instead of offloading it to the sub.

                  second, I usually have a large-ish sub tuned as low as I can make it work, which often requires a large port on the subwoofer. An unfortunate compromise for this is that my port resonance is lower than smaller subs, so I cross the sub a little lower (usually 60hz or so) necessitating a center that plays that low.

                  Another reason for not limiting your center to 80hz is that I don’t always turn the sub on. I’ve been running a Crown XLS for a while that I’m used to pushing the button to turn it on and off. Sometimes when I’m doing paperwork or late at night when I’m not trying to disturb the rest of the house, I leave the sub off. With an f3 in the 40’s, I enjoy shows or movies more.

                  I also like to match components for timbre and voice, so my center usually matches my mains. When people or sounds pan around the screen or room, I find it very detracting to have their voice timbre change as they go. My mains are designed to handle music duties perfectly well on their own (at least most music so my matching center should, too. This is for a couple of reasons, but partly because I’m lazy... err... I seek more efficiency in my life tasks... so it just makes it easy to take my mains and make slight modifications to be used as a center channel. I don’t see much need to limit the extension of the center when the mains aren’t limited.

                  I realize that’s contrary to most of what was posted above, and that’s ok with me. This is what has worked well for me over the years.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Aceman View Post
                    Only reason I was thinking of the horn is because I really love the look of the klipsch rc-64iii, and that’s the style im for some reason obsessed with lol. I was going to do all 4 woofers the same rs180’s but was told a wmtmw would sound better. I’d love to see more pics of your center.
                    Selecting a driver for LOOKS?

                    What are you going to cross your center over at? Do the simulations. I target mine so that 1/2 X-max across the useable range at the highest level I would ever drive the too. Don't always make it, but that is the target. For me, distortion is as important as response. I can eq response, Can't eq out distortion. Don't forget to add in the AVR eq curve to your simulation of excursion. That can tell you if you want to go WMTMW or MMTMM , sealed or ported.

                    So many tradeoffs. 100 ways to do it, 50 will work fine. Pick one of the 50 that work. Where I might pick MMTMM in a sealed box, others may choose others for other reasons. Pay attention to group delay and how that may effect your crossover. Your home, your listening habits.

                    PS: I use grill cloths. I have no macho need to show off the drivers. Maybe if your decorating theme is steam-punk, but mine is not.

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                    • #11
                      Didn't realize speakers sans grills were macho... I though I was just being lazy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blenton View Post
                        I take a different approach than —k— as most of my center channels are ported designs for a couple of reasons.
                        I think we're both right, depending on which driver is being used for the woofer.
                        I have no problems with a 60hz cross-over using a sealed RS-180 under a TV. A 5" woofer probably wouldn't and would need the THX style 80hz crossover. ymmv.

                        - Ryan

                        CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                        CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                        CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
                        CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

                        Comment


                        • Blenton
                          Blenton commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Agreed. But I have to write at least ten characters for PETT to post this..

                      • #13
                        Yes I’m going with the rs180 for the woofers and the rs150 or rs125 for the mids. Using the same tweeter as the rest of my system. I’ll probably have the mids sealed and port the woofers

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