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A driver that MIGHT go a bit louder and lower than the Dayton TCP115 in 4 or 5L is?

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  • A driver that MIGHT go a bit louder and lower than the Dayton TCP115 in 4 or 5L is?

    Hi Gang,
    The title pretty much says it all. I'm looking for a driver that will dig deeper and play louder than the mighty TCP 115. Of drivers I've owned and tested, the HiVi B4 N, the Dayton ND105, the Techtonic Elements BM65C, the Tang Band W4 1720 and Aura NS 3 are contenders, but can't beat it. I'm looking for a driver that I can mate up with a very small tweeter in a no more than 5L box that will exceed the capabilities of the Duane Brown Dayton 4s. I'm thinking that you folks who are familiar with more uncommon drivers might have some suggestions. I'm not shooting for best "bang for the buck" just the best bass extention and SPL for the very small cabinet size. I've built several small speakers that are affordable and outperform the Dayton 4s, but they all required a cabinet ot at least 6L. Squeezing under 50Hz extention and a max SPL of over 95db out of a cabinet of 5L or less is no easy feat!
    Your suggestions will be appreciated.

    Jay

  • #2
    You realize that's a tall order, right? You can do low-bass and small, but sensitivity will likely not be as loud. Have you looked at 5" drivers? Larger Sd may help.
    You can get the thermal capacity higher, then the power required is not a factor using more wattage to get your louder requirement.

    Now- is this for a 2-way? Then this will also be more difficult still. A lot of these kinds of drivers that go low in small volumes are not meant for midrange and up frequencies.
    I can count on one hand the drivers that will play that low in that small volume in the 5" size.

    Later,
    Wolf

    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #3
      +1


      Peerless SDS-135F25CP02-04
      5”; 5mm Xmax

      5L; Fb~ 54Hz. F10: 42Hz

      1.5” , 6” vent or P

      but designed as a “(sub)woofer”

      I haven’t used this; so I’m not sure how articulate it is in the midrange.

      You’ll have to cross around 1.5Khz as far as I can tell.

      Comment


      • #4
        I paired a Peerless SDS 135F25CP : https://www.parts-express.com/Peerle...oofer-264-1658.

        With the Peerless TC6.FC00 full range: https://www.parts-express.com/Peerle...4-Ohm-264-1124

        In a box about 4.5 liters.

        Have it playing side by side with a Dayton 4 and an Overnight Sensation. All are in about same size boxes.. My impression is Dayton 4 plays lowest, Peerless and Overnight Sensation are about the same. But really not that much difference in how low they play. not play as low as Dayton 4. I think Peerless will play louder.

        Comment


        • #5
          I have a MW13P-4 in 7L with a passive radiator; (Jeff Bagby’s Revolution mini design)

          And lived with this speaker for over 6 months- I love it.It’s my first small speaker (I’ve had everything from 1/2 cu ft to 100L) and exceeded my expectations.

          I would not hesitate to cram it into a well stuffed 5L vented enclosure, with a 1.5” x ~6” vent (you’ll have to make this down-firing or get creative on how to fit such a long vent into your cabinet);

          Anyhow; a 5L vented box tuned to 55Hz is very similar to 7L with the oval PR Jeff was commissioned to pair it with.

          And will get you anechoic F10 around 47Hz.
          This translates to as usable in-room response to around 50Hz.

          70cm^2 x 5mm xmax.

          Should hit your 96dB@1m after baffle step compensation.


          ...and this one has fine mids

          Comment


          • #6
            Depending on your time (how soon you need to start) and budget, the upcoming Dayton Epique's smaller model should do it.
            I think someone mentioned F3 under 40hz in 4L (I think), and it has some crazy XMAX...like 16mm or something. Supposed to also have really smooth mids for matching up a tweeter.
            I think price was a little over $100 ($130-ish?) and I don't remember if there was mention of when it should be available.
            My first 2way build

            Comment


            • #7
              Two of the Tectonic 3 1/2 inches in 5 liters tuned at 65 Hz will get an F3 of 50
              John H

              Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

              Comment


              • 3rutu5
                3rutu5 commented
                Editing a comment
                i like this ojne, i actually tuned one of these to around 58hz and enjoyed them hitting f3 of 47, granted i havent put much more than 15w's into them, but i do like the bass itt produces. Also chris helped me (did it for me) with the BSC, so dont know how much this improved things in modelling terms, but to the naked ear they sound much bigger than 3.5 inch drivers IMO.

            • #8
              Two ND90s or 91s.

              Edit 2 of the TCP115 would be good
              Last edited by jhollander; 04-04-2021, 12:16 PM.
              John H

              Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

              Comment


              • #9
                I'm surprised someone has not suggested it at the low price, but isobaric loading could be beneficial here for volume if you can get them to fit.
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #10
                  The little TB W4 1720 has a max SPL of 99db vs. the 94db of the TCP115 and has an F3 only 3db higher, but it has to be in a 7.5L box too do it. It just seems strange to me that the dirt cheap TCP115 works better in a 4.4L box better than any other available driver regardless of price.
                  I love small speakers and I love small speakers that amaze with low F3s and high SPL. It just seemed to me that there must be a way to better the tiny Dayton 4's giant killer performance. Then again, maybe not without going to 6L or more...

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    See what the Peerless SDS 830855 can do. I used one mated to a a small frame XT25 in the same 4.5 L and found it to be a mighty little beast. I don't recall max SPL off hand, but the woofer goes to and and beyond rated Xmax without complaint. With a 25x2 Sure amp, it took all the board was capable of; also used it with an HT receiver and didn't experience any bad things happening to the woofer. My BiL now has them and used the in his dorm room so who knows what kind of abuse they put up with, but as far as I know, they are still alive. I was going to build a Slim Jim tower with them in and MTMMM arrangement but it never materialized. Still thinking about it, though...

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Thanks Blenton,
                      The Peerless SDS 830855 models really well and might challenge the TCP115 overall if its distortion is lower. It is only1 db lower in max SPL and 3db higher in F3. than the TCP 115 in the 4.4L box. The little XT25 SC90 tweeter is really nice, so I can see why you liked the sound of that combination.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Out of curiosity, in your modeling are you seeing the limiting factor for the 830855 being Xmax? or thermal rating? I'm assuming Xmax.

                        The TCP 115 is hard to beat on paper. I would like to play with them at some point, too.

                        I am surprised, though, to see the TCP best it in SPL given the TVP starts at ~82db vs the ~85db of the peerless. Unless, of course, you are using the 4 ohm version of the TCP.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          That little Peerless SDS 4" 830855 is a nice little driver. Moosespeaker paired it up with the DQ25 (Normally I hate this tweeter but George did it right.), and it was digging the trenches it was responding to.
                          I'm pretty sure it was larger than 5 ltrs though.
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            What limits the Peerless SDS 830855 in the modeling is the 3mm Xmax. If it is driven 1mm past that, it then beats the TCP115 in max SPL by 1 db and has an F3of 52Hz compared to the TCP's 48Hz. I have 2 of the Peerless in my PE shopping cart now, I've got to try them (unless I find out about something more promising in the next few days).

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