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A driver that MIGHT go a bit louder and lower than the Dayton TCP115 in 4 or 5L is?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    That little Peerless SDS 4" 830855 is a nice little driver. Moosespeaker paired it up with the DQ25 (Normally I hate this tweeter but George did it right.), and it was digging the trenches it was responding to.
    I'm pretty sure it was larger than 5 ltrs though.
    Wolf
    I also normally very much dislike the DQ25. Actually, I'm not sure I've ever heard anything that uses it that I like, including Zaph's own designs.


    Also, my measured drivers allowed for a little lower f3 than stock parameters - in to the high 40's. IIRC, around .2 cu ft got down to 45 hz. But that was most likely an older production run. I'd pull some out and measure them but I'm not sure I have any left. Neighbor kids keep stealing them... in a good way.

    And, I'm not kidding they were happy to be driven past 3 mm. A few of the neighborhood kids were begging for help with some ammo can speakers and we ended up using the 830855 with that tiny, cheap Vifa 19mm tweeter and the Dayton KAB 100 watt amps (yes, I know that's not 100 watts RMS). At least a half dozen of the high school kids I know built them and blasted them with dubstep and the like. Not a single woofer problem. It was a fun little project.

    And now that I've said all that, I sure hope they don't disappoint. I'd be happy to hear what you have to say about them when they show up.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Wolf View Post
      I'm surprised someone has not suggested it at the low price, but isobaric loading could be beneficial here for volume if you can get them to fit.
      Wolf
      I was thinking the same, but the mounting options could be a big PIA. If using the the Peerless 830855 and assuming you wanted the front of one cone facing out from the baffle, you would have to have a deep little enclosure. It doesn't appear you could nest the large magnet of the outer driver in the cone of the rear driver. That means a total depth of about 7.75 inches from the front baffle to the rear of the second woofer magnet.

      I've been looking at options for PC speakers and thinking that they MIGHT be the opportunity to try an isobaric design. Without a shallow basket and magnet, it always seems to require sacrificing more internal volume for the space in between the drivers than is justified by halving VAS. I expect there's a driver/enclosure option that could make sense, but I haven't stumbled onto it yet.

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      • #18
        The Visaton W100S is a pretty nice small mid-woofer, it might be worth a look. Wide response also.

        I can't seem to model the TCP115 properly. I always seems to have a 8 db peak at it's tuning frequency in a 5 liter box???

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        • #19
          I used a pair of the TCP-115-4 in series in my Zobelitoes MTM project. The TCP115 does have a surprising amount of bass in a smallish enclosure, but its distortion is about what you would expect from a $12 driver. And its midrange clarity is pretty meh compared to better drivers like the RS100 or 830870. I have not heard the 830855 but if it sounds as good as it's bigger 5.25" brother then I'd say that is a great option.
          Craig

          I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

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          • #20
            5L seems too large to me. Too large of a vented box will cause a "hump" (hi-Q knee) before rolloff.
            I can't model the TCP115-4 properly either. Mine are in 0.08cf (net, about 0.10 gross), but using either Dayton's T/S parms or my own, WinISD shows strong output to 60Hz (about -7dB @ 50, and -15dB @ 40). I get strong output @ 40Hz w/my woofers centered about 9" off the DT (but they DO flank my 20" monitor). Pretty awesome.

            MY DATS parms: Qes 0.49, Qms 3.2, (Qts 0.42) Fs 65, Vas 0.066cf, Re 3.2, Le 0.90
            (using Xmax 4.0mm, Pe 40wRMS, Sd 50.3cm^2)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Drjay View Post
              Thanks Blenton,
              The Peerless SDS 830855 models really well and might challenge the TCP115 overall if its distortion is lower. It is only1 db lower in max SPL and 3db higher in F3. than the TCP 115 in the 4.4L box. The little XT25 SC90 tweeter is really nice, so I can see why you liked the sound of that combination.
              I think i have the right driver for you. Can handle 80 watt rms, play lower and maybe even smaller box. I have it already in winisd, i will post the calculated plot.

              https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/uni...hm-120-mm.html

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              • #22
                I'm using WinISD .50a7 and am very happy with it. Using my measured params, a 2.3L box and a tuning frequency of 62Hz, I get a nice and flat response down to -1 db at 70Hz -3at 60 -7 at 52 and -15 at 40.
                In a 4.3L box using a tuning frequency of 52 Hz, I get a gradual 1db dip from 200Hz to 100 followed by a smooth 1db rise to 60Hz followed by a smooth roll off to -3db at 48 Hz and -9 db at 40.

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                • #23
                  Smaller box and +2 db. The driver is expensive and what i see on youtube it's a professional driver. You can crossover him at 2000 to 2500 hz
                  Attached Files

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                  • #24
                    I modeled the Peerless 830870 and in a 5L box its F3 is 10db higher than the 830855 so I'm leaving the 830855 in the shopping cart. Even tho they might not go quite as low as the TCPs, Craig's comment about their overall better sound quality makes a lot of sense.

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                    • Scarface1
                      Scarface1 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Check the kartesian i modelled. High spl, small box, high sound quality

                  • #25
                    Whoops, I was confusing the upcoming Dayton Epique 5.5" with the Kartesian Sub120-vHP-F. The Kartesian claims 48hz F3 in 5L (seems to model lower though?). I think this is an older (and maybe smaller) cousin to the upcoming Epique.
                    Also, realized you're already in that "coming soon" thread, so I'm probably just repeating things you already know, lol.
                    My first 2way build

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                    • #26
                      The Kartesian 4" is <$100. Not sure you could get performance like that anywhere else for that cost or more.
                      The Epique is not available in a 4" model.

                      Later,
                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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                      • #27
                        The Kartesian 4" does look outstanding, but it is too rich for my blood to use in this project. My goal is to come up with something in about a 4.5Lbox that is a clear step up from the very impressive Dayton 4. I initially was focused on the F3 and max SPL parameters. However, Craig's comment regarding the QUALITY of the TCP115's sound and the info from Blenton about his experience with the Peerless SDS 4" 830855 have led me to decide to use that Peerless and an affordable tweeter that is a step up from the ND 16 used in the Dayton 4.
                        So, the plan is to get some input about tweeter selection, put a pair in the PE shopping cart with the 830855s and pull the trigger. Many thanks to everyone who shared their ideas and experience.
                        Last edited by Drjay; 04-06-2021, 10:11 PM.

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                        • #28
                          Vifa XT25SC90 is a great sounding inexpensive tweeter.
                          Peerless DA25BG08-06 is great and cheap, but it is a large format tweeter.
                          TB 25-1719 ceramic is great 2.5k+. (Apparently MOQ now)
                          HiVi TN25 3kHz+.
                          Dayton ND25FA-4 is best 4k+.
                          Tymphany D26NC56

                          You could go with a Dayton PTmini-6 and try a Neat-clone...

                          I think the combo will require a smaller format (2.5"D) tweeter.

                          Later,
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #29
                            Any thoughts about the Peerless DX20 BF00-04, the Tang band 25-1166sj or the Peerless BC 25SC06-4? I would jump on the TB ceramic if it was available. The Peerless XT25 SC 90 is a sure winner but I have used it in about 4 other designs and would kind of like to try something new. And, yes I do need a small format tweet.

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                            • #30
                              The peerless DX20 was the small, cheap peerless tweeter I was alluding to in an earlier post. For a budget tweeter, it isn’t half bad. In all honesty, I didn’t put much time or effort in to the design that used it (those ammo can speakers) so I can’t argue it’s real merits, but I prefer it to the small Dayton of the same size/price range -ND16?. It is pretty inoffensive, and robust enough for an inexpensive tweeter.

                              Have you looked at the Vifa NE tweeters? I don’t see much love for them here except for a handful of older designs (I think Lou used them with a nomex 6.5” woofer?) but I don’t know why. They look like a great small format tweeter.

                              The Vifa BC line was, for a time, popular for the price. I’ve used the truncated version with some peerless 5.25” nomex drivers and it worked well, though I feel the nomex drivers are deserving of a better tweeter. The Bc was pretty easy to work, and sounded great. Obviously not as detailed or revealing as a something like the DX25, XT25, or corundum can be,but not bad at all. And, again, not offensive which is kind of how I judge budget tweeters.

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