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Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

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  • Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

    I'm curious as to how much baffle step people have used in their designs and why.

    For people that ran their designs at Iowa I assume they used full baffle step, but maybe some didn't. If you did run full baffle step, is it actually suitable for your home listening area?

    Does anyone compromise and go with half baffle step on a regular basis? To me this seems like a decent compromise on where you can locate your speakers. Most people don't have optimal listening areas and if you are giving them to a friend (or possibly might down the road) then half seems like the most likely to work (i.e. they can find a good placement).

    Do you always design for where you will be locating your speakers?

    Has anyone done alternative networks (say on a simple 2-way) to allow changing the BS (say 0db,3db,6db)? Is it worth the trouble and expense to make the speakers more versatile?

  • #2
    Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

    Mine was done by ear for my room on Tzu-jan. I think it calculated about to about 4 db.

    Always should be done by ear for the room. Small value changes make a difference.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

      Well . . . my L and R are full range dipoles, so there is no baffle step. That settles that.

      Center and surrounds are built with no baffle step compensation in the crossover . . . the correction (such as is needed) is provided by equalization in the receiver (Yamaha's YAPO, with tweeking). This allows considerable flexibility in placement without requiring crossover re-design.
      "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

        Originally posted by Deward Hastings View Post
        Well . . . my L and R are full range dipoles, so there is no baffle step. That settles that.
        Lol, yeah a speaker radiating in 4pi there isn't exactly a transition from 2pi to 4pi to deal with.

        Originally posted by Deward Hastings View Post
        Center and surrounds are built with no baffle step compensation in the crossover . . . the correction (such as is needed) is provided by equalization in the receiver (Yamaha's YAPO, with tweeking). This allows considerable flexibility in placement without requiring crossover re-design.
        That seems like a good way to go about it. I wonder what most commercial speaker manufacturers are doing as they can't assume the user has that feature in their receiver (or that the end user is even using a HTR).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

          Originally posted by Deward Hastings View Post
          Well . . . my L and R are full range dipoles, so there is no baffle step. That settles that.

          Center and surrounds are built with no baffle step compensation in the crossover . . . the correction (such as is needed) is provided by equalization in the receiver (Yamaha's YAPO, with tweeking). This allows considerable flexibility in placement without requiring crossover re-design.
          True... you get a baffle imposed high pass instead, but that too needed EQ.
          :D
          "Our Nation’s interests are best served by fostering a peaceful global system comprised
          of interdependent networks of trade, finance, information, law, people and governance."
          - from the October 2007 U.S. Naval capstone doctrine
          A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower
          (a lofty notion since removed in the March 2015 revision)

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          • #6
            Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

            Originally posted by dubbreak View Post
            Lol, yeah a speaker radiating in 4pi there isn't exactly a transition from 2pi to 4pi to deal with.

            None of SL's published variants of the Orion are true dipole above mid-triple digits.

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            .
            "Our Nation’s interests are best served by fostering a peaceful global system comprised
            of interdependent networks of trade, finance, information, law, people and governance."
            - from the October 2007 U.S. Naval capstone doctrine
            A Cooperative Strategy for 21st Century Seapower
            (a lofty notion since removed in the March 2015 revision)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

              I use 3 dB in all my designs because in my listening enviroment the backs of the cabinets are only 6-8 inches in front of the wall behind them. Additionally there's a strong room boost in the 50-100 Hz range.
              Paul

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

                I typically design for ~3.5dB baffle step, only if your speakers are small 2-ways on stands a couple feet out into the room will the full 6dB be needed.

                Any floor standing speaker has the floor to act as a barrier, it works even more if the woofer is placed low near the ground.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

                  Originally posted by dubbreak View Post
                  I'm curious as to how much baffle step people have used in their designs and why.

                  For people that ran their designs at Iowa I assume they used full baffle step, but maybe some didn't. If you did run full baffle step, is it actually suitable for your home listening area?

                  Does anyone compromise and go with half baffle step on a regular basis? To me this seems like a decent compromise on where you can locate your speakers. Most people don't have optimal listening areas and if you are giving them to a friend (or possibly might down the road) then half seems like the most likely to work (i.e. they can find a good placement).

                  Do you always design for where you will be locating your speakers?

                  Has anyone done alternative networks (say on a simple 2-way) to allow changing the BS (say 0db,3db,6db)? Is it worth the trouble and expense to make the speakers more versatile?
                  I typically use 3-4dB of BSC, but the 2i had 6dB due to needing more in both ends of the spectrum. Icthus was 4dB, and Canvas was 6dB. Sometimes, it just works out one way or the other, but I typically choose 3-4dB BSC.
                  Later,
                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

                    I usually use no baffle step in floorstanders unless they are tiny like a Totem Arro and then about 3-4db.
                    For my monitors, I use less than I normally see as I usually use a subwoofer. Again, about 3-4db or whatever it takes to get a 60Hz or worst case 80Hz crossover frequency to the sub. It really is context specific.

                    I do have one set of monitors that I went a full 4.5db of baffle step to get them to 60Hz. They can be played on their own but the actual bottom end is still missing.
                    Bill
                    The first one through the wall always gets the bloodiest...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

                      Thanks to everyone for the replies! Interesting stuff.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

                        I find that a fixed baffle step amount is unsuitable. It can only be correct in one acoustic space and placed at a specific distance from the walls and with the listener at a specific distance from the speakers and walls.

                        Even with passive systems, I use a in-line line variable level shelving circuit between the pre-amp and amplifier, or inserted in the EQ/FX loop of a stereo receiver or integrated amplifier so that the BSC can be adjusted precisely for any specific scenario.

                        I have never tried to incorporate a user adjustable BSC into a passive speaker crossover, but I will with my next passive speaker design.

                        I should probably point out that I am fanatical about having as close to perfect sound as is possible, even if impractical.

                        -Chris

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

                          The correct amount of BSC? The answer is "it depends."
                          Dan Wiggins (formerly of Adire Audio) and I used to debate this all the time as I liked 3dB and he tended toward 4dB. The truth is it can vary with the design of the speaker, placement and even the room, so there isn't actually a "correct" number.
                          It's one of those things that you have to dial in, IMHO, to achieve the best results.

                          Best Regards,
                          TerryO

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

                            Originally posted by terryo View Post
                            The correct amount of BSC? The answer is "it depends."
                            Dan Wiggins (formerly of Adire Audio) and I used to debate this all the time as I liked 3dB and he tended toward 4dB. The truth is it can vary with the design of the speaker, placement and even the room, so there isn't actually a "correct" number.
                            It's one of those things that you have to dial in, IMHO, to achieve the best results.

                            Best Regards,
                            TerryO
                            I don't think I asked for the "correct amount". I was alluding to the fact that you can't always design for the room the speaker will be placed in (such as a gift for a friend, so no possibility to dial it in before hand). At the same rate you don't necessarily want to limit them to one specific placement to get the best possible sound (not everyone can place speakers 3ft+ from the walls).

                            I was also just curious in general of what people ended up at. Interesting that many ended up being in the 3-4db range.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Baffle step in your designs - how much and why?

                              The attraction of diy speakerbuilding, or at least one of the attractions, is to be able to custom tailor your speakers for your own setup or listening space. Any manufactured or predesigned speaker will have parameters based on what the designer "thinks" the typical room and setup will be in the majority of cases. If you're lucky, then it will sound as good as it can, otherwise...

                              In the case of gift speakers, why not make it that much more special by actually tuning the speaker to the lucky recipient's room?

                              Nothing, absolutely nothing in this world, says "friendship" better than a custom BSC circuit!:D

                              Best Regards,
                              TerryO

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