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HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

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  • HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

    I've cleared my speaker-building docket and am ready to start looking toward a new build. That next project needs to include one of the 'on sale' drivers I have tucked in my closet: the HiVi F8 and/or the B&G NEO3PDRW. At one time I had hoped they could be used together, but now I'm not so sure.

    There are plenty of good Neo3 projects around so no worries there. F8 projects are waaay tougher to find, so...

    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...45&ctab=1#Tabs

    http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/297-445.pdf

    Does anyone know of any 2-way designs done using the HiVi F8?

    Anyone worked with the F8? Any tips? I see large variations for recommended box size.

    If not, any nominations for a good tweeter pairing? If the RS28A is one of the best answers I'd like to pick up a pair this week.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by turn2; 02-24-2009, 08:49 AM. Reason: Links

  • #2
    Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

    "Robert" (PE Screen Name)mentioned that he is doing a hivi f8 project.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

      The Neo3-PDRW is a very good tweeter and it has excellent low-end distortion performance. However, from what what I remember, it starts rolling off on the low end at a high enough frequency that you might not be able to cross over to the f8 as low as you would like to. If you're willing to run the f8 up to 2kHz or so, you could still use the Neo3. The f8 isn't as bad from a FR or off-axis as you might expect for its size, so you could probably get away with it.

      But, most people will probably tell you to push the crossover point lower. There are tweeters that can handle a 1.5kHz crossover, and you might be better served by using one of those. The RS28 would be a good choice for a lower crossover point, but you have other choices as well. The Northcreek D25-06, Seas 27TDFC, Seas 27TBFC, Seas 27TDF, Vifa DX25, etc, would all be decent choices.

      For my money, I'd probably just stick with the Neo3. It's not quite optimal, but I think it would work fine in your project.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

        Before I left on this endless business trip, I came to a decision on cabinet size and front baffle width for the F8. My design will be vented, 2 cubic feet, tuned to 33.5Hz and F3's at around 30-32Hz, depending on which sim software I use. This was based on TS measurements. The ideal vented box size was around 1.5 cubic feet, so I decided to go a little larger and pull some extra out of it with a slight EBS shelf.

        Cabinet will be 11.75" W x 15.5" D x 27" high, and will require about a 13" stand to get the tweeter to ear height. I'll probably make the stand sturdy and integral, and may run the cables out the bottom.

        Tweeter is the Seas 27TDFC, and targeted crossover is 1.6Khz - 1.8Khz LR4. I still need an IB file of the 27TDFC to pick ideal cabinet placement for it and complete the rough XO, or else make a couple of front baffles and try it centered and offset.

        Good news is the woofer seems to like the idea pretty well and fell into place quickly. Can't say for certain on the tweeter yet, but it's done similar stunts in a lot of other designs. I wanted as close to a 2-way full range as I could get, and to keep it fairly inexpensive. I won't be flying sawdust until Mid-May, though

        Also, I am not the most experienced designer on this board, more or less a fairly new guy with a lot of dangerous software :eek: so if you are interested, and if I were you, I'd probably wait until a group ruling on the finished product is available

        When I saw the drivers, I had a pic in the mind of classic, old school oiled walnut veneer.

        Cheers / Robert

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

          Originally posted by robert View Post
          Before I left on this endless business trip, I came to a decision on cabinet size and front baffle width for the F8. My design will be vented, 2 cubic feet, tuned to 33.5Hz and F3's at around 30-32Hz, depending on which sim software I use. This was based on TS measurements. The ideal vented box size was around 1.5 cubic feet, so I decided to go a little larger and pull some extra out of it with a slight EBS shelf.

          Cabinet will be 11.75" W x 15.5" D x 27" high, and will require about a 13" stand to get the tweeter to ear height. I'll probably make the stand sturdy and integral, and may run the cables out the bottom.

          Tweeter is the Seas 27TDFC, and targeted crossover is 1.6Khz - 1.8Khz LR4. I still need an IB file of the 27TDFC to pick ideal cabinet placement for it and complete the rough XO, or else make a couple of front baffles and try it centered and offset.

          Good news is the woofer seems to like the idea pretty well and fell into place quickly. Can't say for certain on the tweeter yet, but it's done similar stunts in a lot of other designs. I wanted as close to a 2-way full range as I could get, and to keep it fairly inexpensive. I won't be flying sawdust until Mid-May, though

          Also, I am not the most experienced designer on this board, more or less a fairly new guy with a lot of dangerous software :eek: so if you are interested, and if I were you, I'd probably wait until a group ruling on the finished product is available

          When I saw the drivers, I had a pic in the mind of classic, old school oiled walnut veneer.

          Cheers / Robert
          That sounds really interesting Robert. I had hoped to use a bit smaller cabinet. The 27TDFC should be a good pairing. I'll be interested to learn how your work turns out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

            Originally posted by turn2 View Post
            Does anyone know of any 2-way designs done using the HiVi F8?

            Anyone worked with the F8? Any tips? I see large variations for recommended box size.

            If not, any nominations for a good tweeter pairing? If the RS28A is one of the best answers I'd like to pick up a pair this week.
            I haven't used it, but HiVi's measurements have come workably close to my measurements with all their stuff I've used so far.

            That said, the F8 looks like a wonderful driver to work with. Look at that beautifully flat response! Gosh, you could pair it with a 27TDFC and do a 1st order series XO! The RS28a would probably also get along with the F8 very well. I think the F8 would probably cross wherever you'd like it, until beaming becomes a problem. The Neo3 would also be cool, but I get a feeling that a smooth, low Fs tweeter would make one of those projects that just "sounds good right off the bat," and you just tweak from there.
            Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

            Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
            Twitter: @undefinition1

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

              Hey Paul! I'm hopin' but you are right, the F8 seems happy with whatever you want to do with it...hopefully the system will work out.

              Cheers / Robert

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

                Originally posted by robert View Post
                Hey Paul! I'm hopin' but you are right, the F8 seems happy with whatever you want to do with it...hopefully the system will work out.

                Cheers / Robert

                I am not sure how they did this but it looks well damped. I don't see any obvious large breakup nodes. I am guessing that right around 5khz there is a tiny one, but nothing major.

                How will you listen to this system? Full range or with sub? Loud?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

                  There is some junk in the curve about 3Khz that stands out a little more when you cross it over, but not bad; and I'll likely tweak most of it out. I am aiming for a more or less full range system, it is fairly large, and will get to around 100dB at 30Hz so it'll be fine for music. Not ear-bleeding, though with a sub at 80Hz they probably would be.

                  Goal would be a near-FR ported 2 way system (30Hz-20Khz) that is fairly simple and inexpensive, and lets me improve skill with SE and measurement. When I got the F8's and measured TS on them, it just all popped out. I already had the 27TDFC's from the Dayton DIY, they've just been waiting for the right project.

                  The F8 is a kevlar/paper cone - I read that as primarily paper-sound. I listened to them raw before I started the ZRT and they don't seem to have any harsh nastiness to them.

                  Robert

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

                    Originally posted by robert View Post
                    There is some junk in the curve about 3Khz that stands out a little more when you cross it over, but not bad; and I'll likely tweak most of it out.
                    Robert
                    I would like to see a csd/waterfall of that 3k junk.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

                      Originally posted by robert View Post

                      The F8 is a kevlar/paper cone - I read that as primarily paper-sound. I listened to them raw before I started the ZRT and they don't seem to have any harsh nastiness to them.

                      Robert
                      I have read that the kevlar cones are comparable to metal, but that may have been referring to the Usher kevlars. I have an F6 project and don't find those harsh at all.

                      I'll qualify this by admitting I'm certainly in the "training wheel stage" using PCD, but using the files from RJB the F8 and 27TDFC seem to go together rather easily.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

                        focal kevlar is snappy. you may want to use the bi module with these hi vi f8 woofers 4th order x over crosses a bit high 2.9k but it would let you use the silkies I like the sound of the bi modules

                        http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...number=300-774

                        60 dollars each they use gain clone 3886 chips 2 per amp. 3 volume controls the tweeter the woofer and a master. plus a bass boost. you could even use these with the b&g neo. I really like them with my focals.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

                          Originally posted by turn2 View Post
                          I'll qualify this by admitting I'm certainly in the "training wheel stage" using PCD, but using the files from RJB the F8 and 27TDFC seem to go together rather easily.
                          When you get a xo worked up in pcd, post the files for a quick sanity check.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

                            Originally posted by brianpowers27 View Post
                            When you get a xo worked up in pcd, post the files for a quick sanity check.
                            Uhm, do you mean these? Don't be alarmed if I don't get back soon. it's going to be a crazy afternoon.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: HiVi F8, any known designs or 2-way advice to share?

                              Originally posted by turn2 View Post
                              Uhm, do you mean these? Don't be alarmed if I don't get back soon. it's going to be a crazy afternoon.
                              1-That is a good start. I would also consider documenting all of the steps that you had to complete in order to get to this point.

                              2- POst the frd/zma files along with the csd (session file from PCD).

                              Comment

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