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Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

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  • #31
    Re: Additional concepts, what do you think?

    How about using the RS225 instead of the RS180? I realize you'll be less likely to hit that 2nd order slope at 800Hz, but as Maynard pointed out, you don't really want to be that shallow with it. I do believe that Rick Craig's XO in the Cantilenas was also higher order for the MDM55, and we all know what a great sound that had. The 225 can easily reach 800Hz, 4th order, and you would gain that little extra extension that makes the system sound "big."

    Just some thoughts.

    I'd love to see you do another more conventional 3-way with the RSS265HF, RS150 and RS28. That would make for a rockin' box!!! :D
    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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    • #32
      Re: Additional concepts, what do you think?

      How about using the RS225 instead of the RS180? I realize you'll be less likely to hit that 2nd order slope at 800Hz, but as Maynard pointed out, you don't really want to be that shallow with it. I do believe that Rick Craig's XO in the Cantilenas was also higher order for the MDM55, and we all know what a great sound that had. The 225 can easily reach 800Hz, 4th order, and you would gain that little extra extension that makes the system sound "big."

      Just some thoughts.

      I'd love to see you do another more conventional 3-way with the RSS265HF, RS150 and RS28. That would make for a rockin' box!!! :D
      Hi Pete,

      I'll consider it. I just happen to have 6 RS180's I can use!

      I could always make the pair of RS180's sealed, make the box 1" wider and drop an RSS256HF in below them with a plate amp for biamp and active xover and do a 4way!:eek:
      Dan N.

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      • #33
        Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

        Drop the TC1000s in there instead!!!
        R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
        Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

        95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
        "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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        • #34
          Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

          I like the idea of the WG mounted compression driver and the Pro woofer.....say your PHL mids? Mate a pair of these with the two TC1000's in a push-push opposing sub and your in serious business. The WG's look great on clear acrylic!:D

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          • #35
            Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

            I need to get some TS parameters for the TC1000's. I had them at one time and they were lost when I had to turn my laptop in. I thought I copied everything, but must have missed them. I'm not sure what volume they need for a ported system.
            Dan N.

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            • #36
              Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

              Which version do you have Dan? Dual 4 VC's?

              12" TC-1000
              Qts 0.282
              Qes 0.305
              Qms 3.780
              Fs 19hz
              Res 3.70Ω
              Ls 2.38mH
              Lp 3.51mH
              Rp 2.99Ω
              Dia 240mm
              Vas 132l
              mms 153g
              cms 460um/N
              bl 15.4T*m
              Spl 86.9dB

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              • #37
                Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                Dan,
                Interested to see how this turns out - I've got a pair of the MDM-55s myself.

                All this talk about 3-ways and 4-ways makes me hungry for a Skyline 5-way...

                Originally posted by Mayhem13 View Post
                Personally, I'd like to see someone tackle a 'Walsh' type system and Dan would be just the man to pull it off! But Alas, none of your in stock drivers have an open enough basket.
                Oh well......i could only hope! I just ordered a pair of Peerless 8" HDS woofers to give it a try and was gonna start pulling your shirt once i had them in hand.
                I hope i can still count on you once this gets underway anyways.

                Excellent choice of woofer given what your project goal is. The fun/challenging adventure you have in front of you now is: the tweeter - which tweeter to use, how to mount it, how to deal with diffraction issues, etc...

                If you want "Walsh" type surrounds also, don't miss out on these Buyouts: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=299-126
                "...this is not a subwoofer" - Jeff Bagby ;)

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                • #38
                  Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                  Dan,

                  I think this is by far the most innovative and nice looking speaker of the bunch. Unfortunately the only way to execute it would likely invovle OB bass. That could be a tough one...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                    I don't recall. I got these on closeout from a guy who Jeff Bagby had purchased some from. They are the same one he used in the small sub he brought to the inDIYana meet this year (that we unfortunately did not get to hear. Jeff sent me the TS parameters, but it was in an email that was on my old computer. I can tell you that there is only one set of terminals, so it is not a dual VC.

                    I figured for $85 each, I could find a use for them!

                    I'm very skeptical they could do this, but the PHL 8" mid has a range of 200-3000, according to PHL, so if the TC1000 could get up in that range, that would make a pretty powerful combo in a 3way with a plate amp at for the TC1000, passive for the PHL. Of course, the tweeter is a bit of a problem, because I don't have anything that is over 91db on the shelf, which was my original goal, use what I have on hand.
                    Dan N.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                      Originally posted by brianpowers27 View Post
                      Dan,

                      Excellent selection of drivers! I am thrilled with my nearly true OB design. It sounds like you might be open to a design like this. What are the specifications on those buyout 12" woofers?

                      The real question is which one do you want to do?
                      I found the specs to those buyout 12" woofers. In a sealed box of about 70l, they a pair have a sensitivity of about 89db, an F3 of about 33hz and F10 of about 21 with a .75 qtc. They will get to over 106db with 50 watts before reaching excursion limits. Here they are:


                      Specifications: *Power handling: 150 watts RMS/250 watts max *VCdia: 2" *Le: 2.75 mH *Impedance: 8 ohms *Re: 6.9 ohms *Frequency range: 20-3,000 Hz *Fs: 20 Hz *SPL: 84 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 3.1 cu. ft. *Qms: 4.42 *Qes: .48 *Qts: .43 *Xmax: 8 mm *Dimensions: Overall diameter: 12-1/4", Cutout: 11", Depth: 5-1/4".
                      • 2" voice coil
                      • Vented pole piece
                      • Large progressive spider
                      • Rubber surround
                      Dan N.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                        Dan,

                        Those certainly look like capable OB woofers. It might work well to use 2 per side in parallel. The Qt is baout right. If you went OB, you would need to shape the response a little to get it to dig deep. I have a similar configuration in my latest project. The bass doesn't dissapoint. The only drawback is it might not get as loud as your basslines project but the bass is very clean. This is due to the way OB bass interacts with the room. OB bass cannot pressurize the room.

                        What do you plan on doing with these speakers? Will they go in a bedroom/living room? Will they be passively amped? etc...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                          Brian,

                          These are perhaps my favorite visually as well. They were designed with the intention of allowing a pretty large woofer to go on the bottom end so that just about anything could be used. the next to floor loading resulting in the need for very little BSC. The low woofer location also moves the floor bounce null up much higher. Due to the distance to the mid, you can only cross so high, but that is not a problem with most drivers. Otherwise, I don't see much limitation in the woofer arrangement.

                          Why do you say the only way to execute it would be with OB bass? I don't follow your reasoning here.
                          Dan N.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                            Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
                            Why do you say the only way to execute it would be with OB bass? I don't follow your reasoning here.
                            I say that loosely but I was looking at the pyramid style of design and thinking that the internal volume would be fairly low. I imagine that it is a little too low to satisfy a large 12" driver. It would be visually appealing if that cabinet were nopt excessively deep.

                            I could be wrong on this. I am sure you could make it work other ways. Perhaps I am just showing my bias;)

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                            • #44
                              Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                              Brian,

                              I have one concept I was messing with on this particular design. A 12" woofer in about 52 gross liters (no bracing or driver volume adjustments) with the 8" PHL mid in a open back tube (8" dia.) and a ribbon or planar tweeter (which I don't have, BTW). That version is 42" tall, 17" at the base tapering to about 3" at the top and is about 16-17" at the deepest front to back at the very bottom. 52 liters is not too bad for a number of 12" drivers.
                              Dan N.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Contemplating my next speaker design, what do you think?

                                Hi Dan,
                                I like the look of your new design but I did get an idea. I had been rereading my Loudspeaker Design Cookbook. And in the part about enclosure shapes Vance Dickason talked about the advantage of beveled front baffles. I notice that the top part of your speaker does show a bevel. Why not continue the bevel all the way down for the RS180s as well?

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