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Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

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  • Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

    I'm planning on one more speaker build (like Bobby D just needed to do "one last score" in Heat, probably w/ similar results) to start after the New Year. I'm aiming for a real high quality MTM for our next apartment. Maybe a TM if it goes low enough.

    At the moment I'm thinking Jon Marsh's Modula MTM or Natalie P w/ RS180 and TDFC: The crossovers are somewhat daunting, but that just makes them more appealing. Not to mention everyone digs them.

    But I'm also drawn to Jay's ER18/TDFC MTM, for the opposite reason: The XO is so simple and the drivers excellent.

    I'm aiming for reference quality to top $3k speakers I've demoed recently. Speakers that will hold me over for a while.

    Any thoughts? Pros, cons as far as RS180 v. ER18, xo approach? I know it's a real broad, vague question. Just throwing it out there. thanks guys.

  • #2
    Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

    Originally posted by Wushuliu View Post
    I'm planning on one more speaker build (like Bobby D just needed to do "one last score" in Heat, probably w/ similar results) to start after the New Year. I'm aiming for a real high quality MTM for our next apartment. Maybe a TM if it goes low enough.

    At the moment I'm thinking Jon Marsh's Modula MTM or Natalie P w/ RS180 and TDFC: The crossovers are somewhat daunting, but that just makes them more appealing. Not to mention everyone digs them.

    But I'm also drawn to Jay's ER18/TDFC MTM, for the opposite reason: The XO is so simple and the drivers excellent.

    I'm aiming for reference quality to top $3k speakers I've demoed recently. Speakers that will hold me over for a while.

    Any thoughts? Pros, cons as far as RS180 v. ER18, xo approach? I know it's a real broad, vague question. Just throwing it out there. thanks guys.
    The ER18 is simply a notch better than the RS180, to take NOTHING away from the RS180.

    Look at Mark K's latest effort.



    I don't know if MTM would work for this particular alignment, due to the large overlap and extended response of the woofers. But you get an idea of what kind of performance you get from the ER18.

    http://www.audioheuristics.org/measu...ers_test_9.htm
    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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    • #3
      Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

      yeah, I've been considering his project as well...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

        How much do you want to spend? What size constraints do you have? How will they be used (music vs. ht, etc.)?

        Jon, himself, is very fond of the ER18, using them in his still-in-progress Ardent design.

        I can't really comment on the two designs since I've never heard either.

        The Natalie P was supposed to be a cheaper version of the Modula, I think, so that might tell you something between those two.

        Another MTM to consider is Paul K's Marcato. The Usher 8945Ps are on sale right now.

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        • #5
          Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

          Pete, what are your thoughts on the Peerless 830883 compared to the RS180 and ER18?

          I'm not aware of any MTMs that use it, but I would think a really nice one could be designed. Say, with the HDS (now SS D2608/9130).

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

            Originally posted by Paul Ebert View Post
            How much do you want to spend? What size constraints do you have? How will they be used (music vs. ht, etc.)?

            Jon, himself, is very fond of the ER18, using them in his still-in-progress Ardent design.

            I can't really comment on the two designs since I've never heard either.

            The Natalie P was supposed to be a cheaper version of the Modula, I think, so that might tell you something between those two.

            Another MTM to consider is Paul K's Marcato. The Usher 8945Ps are on sale right now.
            Budget will be roughly $400 for drivers and xo (I have a lot of caps, inductors and resistors already so that shouldnt amount to much). They'll be used for both HT and music. It's an apartment so there's no need for crazy bass, I listen at moderate levels (no parties here) and I have no subwoofer.

            Marcato's are out of my price range I believe (as is Jay's 8945P MTM, but the TM is a possibility)

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            • #7
              Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

              Originally posted by Paul Ebert View Post
              Pete, what are your thoughts on the Peerless 830883 compared to the RS180 and ER18?

              I'm not aware of any MTMs that use it, but I would think a really nice one could be designed. Say, with the HDS (now SS D2608/9130).
              John K has an OB MTM using that very midwoofer. I've not heard that particular woofer, but I did hear it's little brother, the 830882, and was greatly impressed. We also heard an HDS effort in Iowa, and it was clearly a class leader. And the 830884 almost stole the show in Curt's Maverick. There's just nothing wrong with the Exclusive's.

              But the ER18 does have fantastic low end performance that neither the RS180 nor HDS can keep up with.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

                Also, I have a pair of pretty-much-unused ER18's (just tested) I could sell you for less than retail if you're interested.

                That said, I've used it before. It's a fantastic driver. I designed an ER18/HDS combo I'd like to build, but money needs to go to the crazy dipoles I'm planning .. it's a pretty cool design, though. Uses the dayton 8" PR without weight. Models very well.
                I am trolling you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

                  John K has an OB MTM using that very midwoofer...
                  Interesting. I was just thinking about designing an OB MTMWW using the 831882s and Kevin Haskin's DPL-10s which are on sale right now for $45 each.

                  I've got one pair of the 831882s and some D26NC55s I thought I'd finally put to good use - probably in the MCM waveguide. But, that's probably more $ than I can afford, and I'm taking the thread off track.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

                    Originally posted by MSaturn View Post
                    Also, I have a pair of pretty-much-unused ER18's (just tested) I could sell you for less than retail if you're interested.

                    That said, I've used it before. It's a fantastic driver. I designed an ER18/HDS combo I'd like to build, but money needs to go to the crazy dipoles I'm planning .. it's a pretty cool design, though. Uses the dayton 8" PR without weight. Models very well.
                    Thanks for the offer. The build won't be underway til around feb., so won't be dropping coin just yet.

                    Man, after 12 yrs. in the twin cities, the vikes finally get their act together after I leave. What's up w/ THAT?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

                      Unfortunately, it appears to be Brett Favre, who after all this time still cannot pronounce his own last name.
                      I am trolling you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

                        Originally posted by Wushuliu View Post
                        Budget will be roughly $400 for drivers and xo (I have a lot of caps, inductors and resistors already so that shouldnt amount to much). They'll be used for both HT and music. It's an apartment so there's no need for crazy bass, I listen at moderate levels (no parties here) and I have no subwoofer.

                        Marcato's are out of my price range I believe (as is Jay's 8945P MTM, but the TM is a possibility)
                        Even if you don't crank it up very loud, MTM or TMM is a better choice if you don't want to add a sub. A single 6.5" driver without a sub definitely has limitations in bass reproduction if you like to turn up the volume occasionally for serious listening.

                        And I agree with Pete. The ER18RNX is a notch above the RS180. In fact, there are a few very attractive 6.5" drivers under $100 that have their own strengths and weaknesses. They are:

                        Seas ER18RNX
                        Peerless HDS Exclusive 830883
                        SB Acoustics SB17NRX

                        It will be very interesting if someone can design three sets of 2-ways with these drivers and identical tweeters and perform a shootout test.

                        By the way, a few people who built the ER18RNX/27TDFC MTMs gave rave reviews. If you want, I can forward their reviews to you.

                        jAy

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                        • #13
                          Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

                          Hi Jay, yes please forward the reviews! What's also nice about that design is that I already have all the xo parts, so I just need the drivers and I'm set.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

                            I'm surprised no one has brought up Zaph WGTMM, which uses a pair of ER18's and 2 beautifully simple xover options. If I were looking to build an existing design, this would be on my short list.
                            - John

                            "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Dr. M. L. King
                            www.BuildTheDream.org

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                            • #15
                              Re: Modula MTM/Natalie P or ER18RNX MTM?

                              Actually the Waveguide TMM uses the CA18 but it's supposed to be a phenominal speaker none the less. I'll let you know when I get my pair built sometime next year.

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