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8 Inches of Fury

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  • KeithL
    started a topic 8 Inches of Fury

    8 Inches of Fury

    Are there any 8" drivers capable of handling HT and music demands in a medium (11.5' by 18', with half wall open in to kitchen) sized room?

    What is the baddest 8" out there?

  • WmAx
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Originally posted by alphaiii View Post
    I tried to model the SoundSplinter R8-I in a sealed box using WinISD Pro, and I got horrible results. The roll off started very high. I double checked the parameters I got from the SS website... Not sure what I did wrong.

    Unfortunately, I still don't know how to properly apply the EQ in WinISD, so I'm not getting very far along modeling any sealed subs.


    Out of curiosity, since it's out of budget, but how small of a sealed enclosure can be used with the JL 8w7?

    I've been trying to find a good driver that I can put in as small a box as possible, and in WinISD I keep ending up with what appears to be over-damped (low Q). Should I be shooting for a Q lower than .7 for a sealed music sub anyway?
    The RL-i 8 has a low Q, and naturally has a better response in ported. But this is only an issue if you don't have EQ to make a correction. You will need to have a parameteric EQ available where you can add + value gain to the parametric band. Also, you have to consider the effect of the high pass crossover. So, in WinIsd, for example, using a 0.7 ft^3 sealed box, add a low pass filter at 80hz, 4th order, Linkwitz-Riley. Now add a parametric filter, 35Hz, Q=1.0, Gain= +4dB. With the 80hz 4th order crossover, with the above parametric EQ, the F3 anechoic, would be approximately at 30-32Hz. I would add a high pass rumble filter to protect from over-excursion past x-mech. A 2nd order butterwork set at 25Hz would be perfect, and F3 would end up at 33-34Hz, anechoic. This safety filter would allow higher overall output with lower distortion. You must use at least 500 Watts RMS at 4 Ohms rated amplifier.

    The JL 8W7 can be used in 0.7 cubic feet net, with excellent results (with parametric EQ and a high power amplifier).

    -Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • alphaiii
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    I tried to model the SoundSplinter R8-I in a sealed box using WinISD Pro, and I got horrible results. The roll off started very high. I double checked the parameters I got from the SS website... Not sure what I did wrong.

    Unfortunately, I still don't know how to properly apply the EQ in WinISD, so I'm not getting very far along modeling any sealed subs.


    Out of curiosity, since it's out of budget, but how small of a sealed enclosure can be used with the JL 8w7?

    I've been trying to find a good driver that I can put in as small a box as possible, and in WinISD I keep ending up with what appears to be over-damped (low Q). Should I be shooting for a Q lower than .7 for a sealed music sub anyway?

    Leave a comment:


  • WmAx
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Originally posted by KeithL View Post
    Would you need to high pass the mains?
    Ideally, yes. This removes the burden from the mains, especially if the mains use small mid-basses for their LF. In any event, you can get better integration using a crossover to combine the mains to the subs, just like a proper crossover is needed to combine any two drivers that overlap, for ideal sound quality. If you are using a surround receiver, you can use it's internal crossover and set mains to 'small' and enable sub out pres. However, the crossovers found in receivers are limited. You would do better using a high quality inexpensive external active crossover such as the Behringer CX2310, for example. However, to use an external active crossover, you must have a way to intercept the line level signal from the pre-amp stage before it goes the amplifier stage. If you are using separate components such as stand alone preamp and amps, this is easy. Also, some dedicated stereo receivers and integrated amps have pre out/ main in jacks on the back that are shorted with little connection bars during normal use, but the shorting bars can be removed and you can insert external processing such as this.

    -Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • KeithL
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Originally posted by WmAx View Post
    Two separate cabinets, one placed near each main, and using appropriate active crossover to high pass the mains and low pass the subs, will get you better results in so far as integration/seamless transition, in most cases. Most beneficial for music, of course.

    -Chris
    Would you need to high pass the mains?

    Leave a comment:


  • WmAx
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Originally posted by KeithL View Post
    Has anyone used the CCC Trio 8 yet?

    Why not 2 l/r separate enclosures with one driver each running of a single mono amp?
    Two separate cabinets, one placed near each main, and using appropriate active crossover to high pass the mains and low pass the subs, will get you better results in so far as integration/seamless transition, in most cases. Most beneficial for music, of course.

    -Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • KeithL
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Has anyone used the CCC Trio 8 yet?

    Why not 2 l/r separate enclosures with one driver each running of a single mono amp?

    Leave a comment:


  • sbrtoy
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    8" RS sub is great for music but you will quickly run out of steam with HT. Also the box is not as small as you could get with some others.

    Going a bit out-there, if you want big bass without using floor space have you thought of an IB setup firing up from the basement?

    Leave a comment:


  • WmAx
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Originally posted by dubbreak View Post
    Outperform most 12". What does that mean?

    The 8w7 does have an impressive 19mm xmax (one way), but it needs it with it's rated efficiency of 82.7 dB. Plus it's 3ohm, plus it has a high FS for home use (good luck getting a sealed box to dig deep). Might work in a car where you have cabin gain working in your favor, but even in a car I'd prefer efficiency.
    The O Audio 500 is perfect. It has a parametric band to boost the natural F3 of 42Hz to 32-35Hz (you need to do the same with virtually any 12" as well) and has a good matching power output, ideal for the JL. Also, the 8W7 is actually, nominally, a 3.9-4 Ohm driver. I have no idea why they list it as 3 Ohm; actual testing of the units shows it is about 4 Ohms, nominal. Also, the listed VAS is actually much less than listed by the factory specs (and this is consistent for 4 samples I have measured).

    It means that it produces the same, or more, clean SPL down low, as a conventional design high quality 12". And it does this via it's unusually linear long stroke motor and suspension. Most drivers will not even produce the SPL you estimate in a modeling program due to real factors such as motor non linearity and power compression. The W7s, however, actually perform almost exactly as they model at high power. IN addition, this '8' is closer to a 9-9.25" woofer in actual surface area due to it's extended cone and surround diameter, and it's unique method of mounting (the mount ring is actually behind and under the surround, so no surface area is wasted by placing the mounting ring on the front surface edges).
    Compare it to the 12W7 and you'd need to throw at least twice the amount of power at the 8 to get as loud.
    Well, that's comparing extraordinary woofer to extraordinary woofer. I was comparing the W7 to conventional subwoofers (Peerless XLS, Dayton RS, Infinity Kappa Perfect, etc.) of high quality design.

    For the price of 1 8w7 you could get 4+ tang band w8 neo subs. There are plenty of amazing 12s less than that price as well.

    Don't get me wrong. The W7s are impressive and I'd love a 12 or 13 but the 8 is a waste of money in my opinion. If you can only run 1 8" sub, yeah it's an option I guess.
    The 8W7 is $250 from online discount sellers. 4 of those TBs will run about the same price, and produce perhaps marginally more output compared to one 8W7, and use far more volume/larger cabinet to do it. One can always take multiples of a driver to 'cheaply' gain SPL. But the 8W7 is key where you want substantial output in a tiny space.

    The 8W7 has been compared to conventional 12" drivers in the real world, and it constantly produces as much, or slightly exceeding SPL, compared to a conventional 12" high quality subwoofer, in many cases.

    I have also used W7 drivers, including the 8" units, and it indeed has the advantage of producing substantial SPL in tiny boxes. BTW, just like most any woofer, it needs some LF EQ compensation, but it's extraordinary motor allows it to easily take the power and excursion to produce clean, dynamic SPL down to 32-35Hz, just like a good conventional 12" in a sealed cabinet. It can be used down to 20-25Hz, but it's dynamic ability suffers, just like a conventional 12" subwoofer, which also has to strain to go to 20-25Hz. However, like a conventional 12, you can put it in a proper ported alignment, and it will produce clean dynamic output down to 20Hz easily. The entire reason for suggesting the W7 8 was due to it producing a lot of LF cleanly in a tiny tiny cabinet.

    -Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • dubbreak
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Originally posted by WmAx View Post
    I suspect the OP needs a tiny box due to WAF. Is this correct OP?

    Objectively, the two top performing 8" drivers would be the Sound Splinter RL-I 8" and JL 8W7 8". These will outperform most 12" conventional subwoofers. The Sound Splinter is a premium TC Sounds designed and built driver, rebadged and sold by Sound Splinter. It is currently out of stock and will not be in stock for a few more months. You need to provide 500 clean watts to these 8" drivers.

    -Chris
    Outperform most 12". What does that mean?

    The 8w7 does have an impressive 19mm xmax (one way), but it needs it with it's rated efficiency of 82.7 dB. Plus it's 3ohm, plus it has a high FS for home use (good luck getting a sealed box to dig deep). Might work in a car where you have cabin gain working in your favor, but even in a car I'd prefer efficiency.

    Compare it to the 12W7 and you'd need to throw at least twice the amount of power at the 8 to get as loud.

    For the price of 1 8w7 you could get 4+ tang band w8 neo subs. There are plenty of amazing 12s less than that price as well.

    Don't get me wrong. The W7s are impressive and I'd love a 12 or 13 but the 8 is a waste of money in my opinion. If you can only run 1 8" sub, yeah it's an option I guess.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Roemer
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Originally posted by KeithL View Post
    Thinking outside the box. Just looking for something different. Thinking that the smaller driver will have better transient response. I could be way off though.
    Dayton's 8" RS sub and TangBand's should work for you. 8's are about 33 sq.in., 10's about 50, 12's about 80. If they all have the same Xmax, to equal a 12" sub, you'd need about 2-1/2 8"ers, or 1-1/2 10"ers. The larger drivers will TYPICALLY be more efficient (more SPL out with fewer watts in). Bigger boxes are easier to tune (low) than small boxes.

    You can get a sloppy vented box by poor selection of volume and tuning, as you can get a boomy sealed box with poor volume selection. Both can sound excellent if designed properly.

    Leave a comment:


  • WmAx
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    I suspect the OP needs a tiny box due to WAF. Is this correct OP?

    Objectively, the two top performing 8" drivers would be the Sound Splinter RL-I 8" and JL 8W7 8". These will outperform most 12" conventional subwoofers. The Sound Splinter is a premium TC Sounds designed and built driver, rebadged and sold by Sound Splinter. It is currently out of stock and will not be in stock for a few more months. You need to provide 500 clean watts to these 8" drivers.

    -Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • joekraska
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Originally posted by Dirk View Post
    The "small driver means better transient response" idea doesn't really hold up, especially since you'd be likely to end up porting that small driver. Transient response isn't just based on the moving mass. It's also based on the motor design.
    How to grade this objectively? So far I have... "group delay, over rated," and "ratio of inductance to driver size, unspecified".

    Joe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike E
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Dont forget about the Dayton Reference 8in... from my usage though, i have had two 8in 740c's in sealed boxes. they were wired in parallel to a [email protected] play amp. with [email protected] from the receiver music and ht was nice imo. i think the parents living room is bigger, as it is open to the dinning room, kitchen, front room.

    some may not like me posting this link
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...8&postcount=18
    however i thought it was a good idea about getting the 740P/C to play lower in a larger box. im always for tinkering with things, sometimes we have to think outside the box.

    *note: i take no sides in about "speaker shaping circuits". all i have to say is, i got my 740C's way back on sale, if i can do a bit of modifying to get them to play lower. As well as use all that Xmax with 150watts or lower, im all for it!

    Leave a comment:


  • spasticteapot
    replied
    Re: 8 Inches of Fury

    Any of the TC Sounds based 8" drivers aren't bad, and the JL 8W7 is nice too. However, I'd just go for a 12" driver that will give the same performance for less money.

    Leave a comment:

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