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Flex Your PCD Mettle:

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  • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    You like them better than Seos and QSC, I assume. DO you prefer the JBL 2432H over BMS4555 simply because of the throat issue. Last annoying question. Why pr300. I have had an itch to try the Faital stuff. So new and uncharted, in a sense, but is your recommendation from first hand experience in comparison to other drivers? THe 15FH500 and 15pr400 model really well in a TQWT. PR400 will give you 99dB and 40hz F3. Add a sealed 10" or 12" to the mix and am starting to get excited. Just got to talk the wife into the box.

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    • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

      PTWG's > round axisymmetric WG's IMO.

      I think the 2432H is capable of going lower than the ring radiator on the smaller WG's you are stuck with. That discontinuity in the driver is like bolting a 1.5" driver to a 2" throat horn, there is a penalty in the top octave.

      Maybe you could get by with the Econo 2408H+12PR300 version I'm currently listening to, I only saved the raw curves that I was working from, as I had decided to listen to it for a bit... Over a year ago :o.

      Raw anechoic 4pi driver responses:

      Regards,
      Dan

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      • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

        Both drivers look really good. I might just get the 2432H new at same time as I get the Pt waveguide. Been playing with the PR300 model. It looks nice with F3 in 40-45Hz range and good looking impedance and group delay plots. Ill post them later on. I might play around with some 18's just in case i can pull it off.

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        • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

          Hi buzzforb,
          I'm happy with what I have, very good sound and more output than the ear can handle. Compression drivers like the 2408H that go low enough for 2way use and still retain their composure into the UHF are rare.

          IF I were looking for a potential improvement it would be via a lower crossover point, hence a driver horn combo with a bit more horsepower. I like the ring radiator concept, but what I saw with the BMS was very disappointing. I'm not super excited about the 2432H either, but I know it has the ability to deal with less than optimum loading on the low end...

          So looking around at what's available now vs the BMS 4555/4554 spec sheets I think that I would investigate the Faital HF107. The HF107 is also 1.75" coil ring radiator and I think it would be worth a shot with the H290C, no kludgy driver throat like the BMS.

          I'll be really interested to see your proposal for the 12PR300 cabinet, I never thought of it as a bass driver.
          Regards,
          Dan

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          • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

            Dan,
            Here is the sims for the TQWT for the PR300. Not super low, but pretty respectable for a HE 12". The TD12S and H will do better, but sacrifice some effciency. THe size will put it somewhat smaller than a JBL s4700 when horn is included in overall height. THis one should be in 36" range with midpoint between woofer and horn sitting about 30-32" off the ground.

            I have looked at the HF107 from Faital. Tried for a long time to find a 1.4" for the HF146, but cant seem to find something that works as well as the 1" horn offerings. THe HF106 is the newer version of the 107 and looks to have better response, but these are manufacturer datasheets and you never can tell. I dont really like the impedance performance of either. Even with current driver amp, I wonder what difficulty that will create. The HF94 horn from RCF looks interesting for the HF146, but it not a 90 x 40. Us Speaker rep swears by the Radian 745NeoPb as being the best choice for 1.4" drivers. Oh well. As I understand it, the reason for the 40degree choice is to limit floor and ceiling interaction. I know Geddes and others think this is not an issue, but it makes sense that by narrowing the vertical response, you could eliminate some possible issues.
            Attached Files

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            • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

              DAn,
              Here are some polars I found for the HF94 and Hf96 by RCF. Both look really good, with the 94 loadnig easily down to 1K. What advantages do the PT waveguide and QSC152i hold over these. I know both are wider than the RCF version, but the polar responses look very similar. I guess this is getting into theory and why a wider waveguide is better if they seem to perform in a similar manner to the RCF square waveguides. Both the RCF guides are aluminum and seem to be very well made.

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              • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                I just built the EconoWave Mini S-8:

                They sound GREAT. The efficiency, power handling, clarity and detail just blow away anything I've ever built using "home-audio" drivers. I should have done this a long time ago.

                It's nice to be able to play my music really loud and not worry that I'm pushing the limits of my speakers.

                Thank you Zilch. RIP

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                • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                  Nicely done, Sir!

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                  • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                    Econowave Altec 414-8B project is finished at last. Hopefully a speaker that Zilch would have approved. A modest homage to the amazing man. Also, thanks to Pete Schumacher and NeoDan for their patience.

                    http://imgur.com/a/23UkU#AoJ2drN

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                    • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                      Econowave Altec 414-8B project is finished at last. Hopefully a speaker that Zilch would have approved. A modest homage to the amazing man. Also, thanks to Pete Schumacher and NeoDan for their patience.

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                      • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                        Originally posted by HeartFixr View Post
                        Econowave Altec 414-8B project is finished at last. Hopefully a speaker that Zilch would have approved. A modest homage to the amazing man. Also, thanks to Pete Schumacher and NeoDan for their patience.

                        http://imgur.com/a/23UkU#AoJ2drN
                        Nice looking enclosure!

                        Do you have any stuffing inside? You really should add some if you don't have any. Standing waves will form without it. If you can attach a few wads onto that center brace, the mids will likely clear up even further.
                        R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                        Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                        95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                        "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                        • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                          Stuffing is covering the crossover and the sides are lined with acoustic foam.

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                          • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                            Nice choice of components. So how do you like the sound?

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                            • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                              Very accurate fidelity but will be building subwoofer with AE TD-15H and a pair of passive radiators. The BMS compression driver and the waveguide are amazing.

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                              • Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

                                I am planning on buying new woofers to go with my seos12/CD and a matching crossover to have the best sound I can afford and for the type of sound I want.

                                Until that time, I am playing around with some Cerwin Vega woofers to see if I can learn how to use PCD7 and some of the more technical side of passive crossover design.
                                I have gotten to a point where I am about to start entering data into PCD7 and am looking for willing participants to help me learn to enter the parameters on PCD7 as I see it on a crossover schematic. I am still new to crossover design and have reach a point where I need more help.

                                I am using a generic econowave crossover, and not sure how to enter the values into pcd as I see them on a diagram/schematic. I have other designs I want to try out while also learning to play around with other options. I can't do that until I more knowledgeable on PCD.
                                I have opened frd files for woofer and tweeter, and played a little bit with basic crossover points. But I don't know the more complex stuff like notch filters and what not.
                                Even if I saw a schematic for a filter, I don't know how to enter it into PCD.

                                I have been reading papers and what not by Wayne Parham and others that have direct experience with compression drivers. Some of the speak is a little too technical for me, but have still learned a lot from the info.

                                I guess I just need help with applying information on PCD7 now.
                                I read as much as I could find the last couple of days or so specific to compression drivers, and feel I am ready to start diving into PCD7 with some help. I am more of a hands on type learning, and need some computer time on PCD.

                                Here is a link to my current project. I can provide ZMA and FRD files if need be.

                                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...stalled-SEOS12

                                These woofers are only ok compared to a higher quality, high efficiency woofer like the deltalite II 2512 (the CV is similar to a Dayton Classic). But they will help me learn.
                                Thanks to anyone who read this. :D
                                Todd
                                Last edited by tmhutson; 01-07-2014, 02:11 AM. Reason: grammaticals

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