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Flex Your PCD Mettle:

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  • CZ Eddie
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Originally posted by donprice View Post
    Well, by definition eWaves are 2-way designs. So you really can't get there from here...

    Back to your previous question regarding how to deal with a height limit of 9"....

    Is this for a center channel speaker or your mains? If it is for a center channel, the simple solution is to skip it and use a "phantom" center channel. Properly set-up, the directivity control of the eWave mains should give you a killer center channel sound in phantom mode (of course your HTR comes into play here).

    If you need really short mains or surround speakers, you could build the eWave mini S-8 and rotate the horn 90 degrees. Would it work as well horizontally as it does vertically? No. Is it going to be good enough? Excellent question. As bwaslo noted, the you will have a narrow vertical lobe. If you only listen to music/movies from one spot and you aim the speakers properly, you are good (I think). If you move around the room, maybe not so good. By the way, similar effects happen with all (most?) speaker designs to different extents so don't think this is a an eWave specific issue....only that the level of detail in this thread (and related ones) is such that you get measurements and discussion of horizontal and vertical polar responses instead of only on-axis response.

    Last but not least, there is a real good chance the speakers will outlive whatever is causing the height restrictions. So build them, enjoy them, and then turn them right side up one day when you can.
    Thank you for that post!
    This is for front mains L & R built into an entertainment center.

    But after some more research this evening, I'm now I'm leaning towards the Eminence Beta 8CX 8" coaxial combined with the Selenium D220ti CD and a Zilch crossover that was designed for the 10CX but should be a good starting point for the 8CX also.

    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...ml#post2626851

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve Henry
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Originally posted by donprice View Post

    Last but not least, there is a real good chance the speakers will outlive whatever is causing the height restrictions. So build them, enjoy them, and then turn them right side up one day when you can.
    Maybe the best response on this thread. Well said, Don!:D

    Leave a comment:


  • donprice
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Originally posted by CZ Eddie View Post
    So how do I make something like this from Econowave parts?
    And 8" instead of 10" woofer.
    Well, by definition eWaves are 2-way designs. So you really can't get there from here...

    Back to your previous question regarding how to deal with a height limit of 9"....

    Is this for a center channel speaker or your mains? If it is for a center channel, the simple solution is to skip it and use a "phantom" center channel. Properly set-up, the directivity control of the eWave mains should give you a killer center channel sound in phantom mode (of course your HTR comes into play here).

    If you need really short mains or surround speakers, you could build the eWave mini S-8 and rotate the horn 90 degrees. Would it work as well horizontally as it does vertically? No. Is it going to be good enough? Excellent question. As bwaslo noted, the you will have a narrow vertical lobe. If you only listen to music/movies from one spot and you aim the speakers properly, you are good (I think). If you move around the room, maybe not so good. By the way, similar effects happen with all (most?) speaker designs to different extents so don't think this is a an eWave specific issue....only that the level of detail in this thread (and related ones) is such that you get measurements and discussion of horizontal and vertical polar responses instead of only on-axis response.

    Last but not least, there is a real good chance the speakers will outlive whatever is causing the height restrictions. So build them, enjoy them, and then turn them right side up one day when you can.

    Leave a comment:


  • bwaslo
    replied
    A workable 15" Pro woofer

    In view of the exploding woofer prices, I picked up a still-cheap PA-380-8 from Parts Express and did some (relatively crude) measurements, mostly to see how high up it might be used in an Ewave. The larger SEOS waveguides that Erich is coming up with seem like they could be crossed over below below 1kHz when using a B&C DE250, so an affordable 15" would be of interest.

    Brian at PE said the data sheet (with a promising looking response curve) currently on the site for PA380-8 is from the manufacturer and let me have a new off the stack unit from stock to check out. I don't have an open 15" baffle or box handy, so I just set it on a pile of blankets on the floor with a book to keep the back vent open... so don't read too much into them, other than the high freq limit which is what I was looking for. I moved the mic around to make sure it was reasonably consistent at distance and near-axis positions. Here is a plot from about 2' away

    Looks pretty good to me for crossover even as high as 1500Hz.

    I also did a quick check of T/S values with the woofer in the same position and no breakin, here is what WT3 said:


    The Vas and efficiency read off from the data sheet, but most values are generally pretty close. Might be all the blankets right behind the basket. It looks like it should work in a reasonably small box though (for use with separate subs, of course). If I get time and energy, maybe I'll remeasure this under better circumstances.

    Anyway, just wanted to report a much better-priced option for those who are going for directivity to lower frequencies.

    Sof

    Leave a comment:


  • CZ Eddie
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    So how do I make something like this from Econowave parts?
    And 8" instead of 10" woofer.

    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • CZ Eddie
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Thanks.
    Just one more try at finding dynamic speakers with off-axis response to fit in my 9" height restriction.

    Leave a comment:


  • bwaslo
    replied
    Re: EconoWave Mini S-8: Summary

    Originally posted by CZ Eddie View Post
    What sort of changes would need to be done to have this design play well when laying on it's side?
    Well.... none. Because it won't play well laying on its side, at least if the horizontal constant directivity (kind of the main point of the design) is important to you. Unless the horn and the woofer are one above the other, you'll have a horizontal pattern that is constant for about 20degrees at most and will have holes and other uglies beyond that. You'd have a wide smooth vertical pattern, but that's not usually considered as desirable.

    Leave a comment:


  • CZ Eddie
    replied
    Re: EconoWave Mini S-8: Summary

    Originally posted by Zilch View Post




    Errata: 'Til I get around to fixing it, correct PE Part# for L1 is 255-032.

    [IMG]http://techtalk.parts-express.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=



    What sort of changes would need to be done to have this design play well when laying on it's side?

    Leave a comment:


  • smokarz
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Originally posted by Erich H View Post
    ......

    I'm trying to figure some box sizes to pair with the new SEOS waveguides

    .
    now i am really looking forward to this, SEOS with flat pack.

    Leave a comment:


  • Erich H
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Originally posted by donprice View Post
    Zilch used the PE trapezoidal cab on multiple builds to keep it simple. It wasn't optimal size or tuned for bass response for any particular driver. The crossover really doesn't care (much) if you use a bigger (or smaller) box as long as the baffle width and driver spacing is the same.
    If you had to recommend some general enclosure sizes based on the general woofer sizes, what would they be?

    Examples:

    Would a 1.25 cu ft enclosure pair well with a decent number of pro 10's?

    And maybe 1.75 cu ft for 12's?

    Or do you think they can go smaller due to the fact that most people will be using subwoofers?



    I'm trying to figure some box sizes to pair with the new SEOS waveguides.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2leftthumbs
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Mayhem, weren't you once thinking about a horn tweeted/k6.5X2 design? Did you ever get anywhere on that?

    Leave a comment:


  • donprice
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Originally posted by smokarz View Post
    thanks,

    i am looking at the Delite 12" and SR versions. those look like they were built in a sealed 1.6cf cab?
    Zilch used the PE trapezoidal cab on multiple builds to keep it simple. It wasn't optimal size or tuned for bass response for any particular driver. The crossover really doesn't care (much) if you use a bigger (or smaller) box as long as the baffle width and driver spacing is the same.

    The design is flexible which is why you will see vintage cabs and/or vintage woofers thrown into the mix. Unfortunately this means you can drive yourself nuts looking for the "correct" answer when the answer is "it depends". So pick a budget, pick an application (full range or use w/sub), pick a size (8" mini through 15" monster), pick a cabinet (recycled or custom), and pick new or used/vintage drivers. Now you can start :D

    Good luck. This can be a very educational process as you sort through the choices and compromises associated with each choice.

    Leave a comment:


  • fastbike1
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    If you haven't looked already, the Dayton PA-310 models well for EWave. Like most pro drivers, it doesn't go real low, but is pretty smooth beyond the EWave crossover (~1600Hz) and can get loud. Not terribly expensive either.


    Originally posted by smokarz View Post
    thanks, i'll do some googling but if you have some links on hands please let me know. thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • smokarz
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Originally posted by Dean1000 View Post
    Take a look at the econowave thread over at Audiokarma.

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=150939
    i did, i am involve on both threads. just not seeing new e-wave builds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dean1000
    replied
    Re: Flex Your PCD Mettle:

    Take a look at the econowave thread over at Audiokarma.

    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=150939

    Leave a comment:

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