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  • buzzforb
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    Pete,
    One last bothersome question. All things are relative and one of the factors in the decision of which speaker to build, is size. Using the two JBL monitors as a refernce point, I can build a box similar to jbl 4429 or one similar to jbl 4365. THe smaller one with Kappalite 3012LF or TD12s and the larger one with Altec 416 or TD15m. Horns will be sized accordingly. In your opinion and based on your experience, if the modeling program shows a similar response(disregarding final sensitivity level) will a woofer in a bigger box sound better than a woofer in a smaller box. The bigger box definitely has better group delay.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=jbl+...2F%3B600%3B450

    https://www.google.com/search?q=jbl+...-3%3B747%3B496

    Leave a comment:


  • Pete Schumacher
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    Originally posted by buzzforb View Post
    Yes, but i dont want the baffle or the passive components, as I am going active. I guess i should consider that having an active system will allow me to manipulate the woofer quite a bit, so maybe the Kappalite should be considered as well. I believe this was the favorite of Zilch in the variations he built, correct.
    The "Deluxe" model used the Kappalite 3012LF, and I do think it may have been one of his favorites.

    If you're going active, you need to be able to create a transfer function that mimics the passive crossover version. The textbook filters simply will not do what you need.

    Leave a comment:


  • buzzforb
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    Yes, but i dont want the baffle or the passive components, as I am going active. I guess i should consider that having an active system will allow me to manipulate the woofer quite a bit, so maybe the Kappalite should be considered as well. I believe this was the favorite of Zilch in the variations he built, correct.

    Leave a comment:


  • carlspeak
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    ...............

    Econowaves in general are designed to be turned up, since they use pro drivers for the most part and are able to handle the power. However, they also have higher than average sensitivity which means you don't need a lot of power to get them playing pretty loud. What these woofers are able to do is deliver dynamics, uncompressed. That brings a lively quality to the music regardless the average SPL.
    Zilch was a huge JBL fan and thus the econowave development gave DIY'rs a way to get great sound with highly efficient speakers at bargain prices relative to the likes of JBL. The key is you have to like that approach and 'west-coast sound' if you want to go that route.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pete Schumacher
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    Originally posted by buzzforb View Post
    ]I am going to try the Deltalite 2512. I am still keeping my eye on the TDwoofers, but for slightly large box and less money, I can get down as low and maintain more SPL headroom at low power levels. IF I like this, I will have to decide on goig with td12M in selaed box, crossed to TD15s/H sub or some other system. Really trying to keep the boxes small and in monitor format.
    Deltallite 2512 in 3.5^ft box, tuned to 42Hz
    Ae TD12s in 2.5^ft box, tuned to 36Hz
    [ATTACH]39290[/ATTACH][ATTACH]39291[/ATTACH]
    You really ought to check out DIYSoundgroup.org. I'm pretty sure they have a kit for the Deltalite 2512 there.

    Leave a comment:


  • buzzforb
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    ]I am going to try the Deltalite 2512. I am still keeping my eye on the TDwoofers, but for slightly large box and less money, I can get down as low and maintain more SPL headroom at low power levels. IF I like this, I will have to decide on goig with td12M in selaed box, crossed to TD15s/H sub or some other system. Really trying to keep the boxes small and in monitor format.
    Deltallite 2512 in 3.5^ft box, tuned to 42Hz
    Ae TD12s in 2.5^ft box, tuned to 36Hz
    TD12vsDeltallite F3.pdfTD12vsDeltallite SPL.pdf

    Leave a comment:


  • Pete Schumacher
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    Originally posted by buzzforb View Post
    ThAnk you for the very clear and concise answer. I think I will go for the 12s. Do you get similar numbers modeling the td12s? I know we are talking posted numbers here.
    Of course, every enclosure model is only one along an infinitely varied set of curves. That's one that looks quite reasonable.

    Leave a comment:


  • buzzforb
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    ThAnk you for the very clear and concise answer. I think I will go for the 12s. Do you get similar numbers modeling the td12s? I know we are talking posted numbers here.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Pete Schumacher
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    Originally posted by buzzforb View Post
    What are the general impressions of the AE woofers. Although they seem superior on paper, you don't hear a lot about their sound. I also have 416-8a and 414-8 to work with, but they require much larger boxes. These are more well known for their sound, although it can get a little cultish. What would be the ideal AE driver for this combo?

    BTW, WinIsd shows that the TD12s in 3^ft box tuned to 35Hz will go as low with similar slope as 416-8a in 9^ft and td15m in 6.5^ft box. Only downside is 6dB less sensitivity. I would assume that it has enough linear travel to handle much higher SPL's. It really does seem to be a question of box size and sensitivity. On another forum, there are those who would suggest that a speaker built for power wants to be turned up to sound good. THis is my main concern.
    The AE woofers are among the very best on the planet. I've never heard bass as clean, clear, defined, as I have with those woofers.

    We use the TD15H and the TD10M in a couple of our builds. The TD15H is a woofer in a 3-way tower that we cross at 400Hz. The 10M is used in a 2-way crossed at 1100Hz to a Beyma TPL-150H AMT. The TD10M is a pretty remarkable 10" woofer that does a great job over its range. Objectively, they have incredibly low distortion, and subjectively, their sound is smooth, natural, with plenty of resolution to satisfy almost anyone. At lower volumes, some of our other models deliver (subjectively) superior midrange clarity and resolution, but when the volume is cranked, the effortless ease exhibited by the AE woofers is readily apparent.

    Econowaves in general are designed to be turned up, since they use pro drivers for the most part and are able to handle the power. However, they also have higher than average sensitivity which means you don't need a lot of power to get them playing pretty loud. What these woofers are able to do is deliver dynamics, uncompressed. That brings a lively quality to the music regardless the average SPL.

    And this is purely my opinion here. The compression tweeter will always be the weak link any econowave build using AE woofers.

    Leave a comment:


  • buzzforb
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    What are the general impressions of the AE woofers. Although they seem superior on paper, you don't hear a lot about their sound. I also have 416-8a and 414-8 to work with, but they require much larger boxes. These are more well known for their sound, although it can get a little cultish. What would be the ideal AE driver for this combo?

    BTW, WinIsd shows that the TD12s in 3^ft box tuned to 35Hz will go as low with similar slope as 416-8a in 9^ft and td15m in 6.5^ft box. Only downside is 6dB less sensitivity. I would assume that it has enough linear travel to handle much higher SPL's. It really does seem to be a question of box size and sensitivity. On another forum, there are those who would suggest that a speaker built for power wants to be turned up to sound good. THis is my main concern.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pete Schumacher
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    There's no issue with sensitivity mismatch, as that is handled in the crossover with padding on the tweeter. Almost every econowave variant has a woofer with much lower sensitivity than the compression drivers.

    Leave a comment:


  • buzzforb
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    First time poster and first time builder. Amps and FR speakers have been my game up to this point. I am about to attempt a version of the econowave that I want to look ad perform similarly to the JBL 4429. Based on sims I have done, the TD12s in a 2.5^ft box, tuned to between 30-32Hz can get plenty low with a nice smooth rolloff. My concern has to do with issues that would arrise as a result of the efficiency gap between the compression driver and woofer. I plan on using either the Denovo 360 or DE250 and will try either QSC or PYLE PH 714. If it works ou as expected, I may move up to 1.4" on custom wood horn. I am just unsure of power response issues with driver mismatch. I have mini DSP and DIy active crossover. Figured I would try that first before passive solution.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Lightfoot
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    Hi Pete, nicely said.

    318,000 views on this thread . . . who says one guy can't make a difference?

    We miss you Zilch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pete Schumacher
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    318,000 views on this thread . . . who says one guy can't make a difference?

    We miss you Zilch.

    Leave a comment:


  • killa
    replied
    Re: Need help with crossover

    +1 This is a AC circuit so there is no pos or neg so to speak. Current flows both direction.

    Leave a comment:

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