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  • Fountek NeoCD1.0

    I need opinions. I have been looking at these Founteks on sale at Madisound and wondering how they would play with an RS100-4 and RS225-4? I have both Dayton drivers just waiting to be deployed! The RS225-4 is listed at 92dB, but with inductor losses & baffle step taken into consideration, things should line up fairly well, don't you think? Anything I'm not taking into consideration?

    Thanks,
    T
    Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

  • #2
    Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

    Originally posted by tom_s View Post
    I need opinions. I have been looking at these Founteks on sale at Madisound and wondering how they would play with an RS100-4 and RS225-4? I have both Dayton drivers just waiting to be deployed! The RS225-4 is listed at 92dB, but with inductor losses & baffle step taken into consideration, things should line up fairly well, don't you think? Anything I'm not taking into consideration?

    Thanks,
    T
    Xover about 4-5kHz, and be careful with the testing of it- it's a true ribbon that is a short at low frequencies.

    Paul K used it in his Cantilenas, and it was an exceptional top-end.
    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
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    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

      As Wolf so kindly mentioned, I use this tweeter in my canTiLenas along with a Morel MDM55 dome midrange and SS22W/8857T00 woofer. This is my personal "reference" speaker with outstanding bass quality equalled by a wonderful midrange and beautiful, extended highs. Percussion instruments sound very real with this combination of midrange and tweeter. The midrange crosses to the tweeter just below 5 kHz.
      Paul

      Originally posted by tom_s View Post
      I need opinions. I have been looking at these Founteks on sale at Madisound and wondering how they would play with an RS100-4 and RS225-4? I have both Dayton drivers just waiting to be deployed! The RS225-4 is listed at 92dB, but with inductor losses & baffle step taken into consideration, things should line up fairly well, don't you think? Anything I'm not taking into consideration?

      Thanks,
      T

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

        Originally posted by tom_s View Post
        I need opinions. I have been looking at these Founteks on sale at Madisound and wondering how they would play with an RS100-4 and RS225-4? I have both Dayton drivers just waiting to be deployed! The RS225-4 is listed at 92dB, but with inductor losses & baffle step taken into consideration, things should line up fairly well, don't you think? Anything I'm not taking into consideration?

        Thanks,
        T
        The CD1.0 is better suited to a dome mid and higher crossover point. You could possibly make it work but I think another tweeter will give you a better match.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

          Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
          Percussion instruments sound very real with this combination of midrange and tweeter.
          I've had the same experience when listening to speakers with Fountek ribbons! I doubt it's just a coincidence.

          The Mini Statements, which use the slightly larger CD3.0, are the only speakers I've ever heard that reproduce cymbals (percussion) accurately.

          I'm glad you mentioned that Paul. Hearing the way cymbals sound on the mini's really shocked me. I wasn't sure if it was the Tang Band mid or the Fountek ribbon (or both) that was responsible for the realism with percussion instruments. Because you and I both noticed it, I'm gonna have to assume it's the Founteks.
          Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.

          Scanspeak Revelator R2904/7000's, Scanspeak Revelator 15M/4531K00's, Scanspeak Revelator 22W/8857T00's, Eminence NSW6021's.
          MiniDSP 4x10HD. ICE Power amplification and an iNuke 3000.

          Sennheiser HD650's powered by TEAC amplification.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

            After some review and seeing the comments by you fine gentlemen, I really want to use this tweeter. But heeding Rick's advice and noting the RS100-4's F3 HD spike at 2K on Zaph's charts, I think this pairing might be a bit over my head, at least to achieve my goal of building a system with relatively lower distortion through the mid band than anything I currently have.

            But the FR88EX looks fine past 4K. HD looks good. Only $23...I'll eat leftovers for a few days instead of going out for lunch.:D Will it play low enough to meet the RS225-4 without resorting to the use of very steep slopes? This will be my first 3-way, so fewer components means fewer things I might screw up!:p
            Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

              Originally posted by tom_s View Post
              After some review and seeing the comments by you fine gentlemen, I really want to use this tweeter. But heeding Rick's advice and noting the RS100-4's F3 HD spike at 2K on Zaph's charts, I think this pairing might be a bit over my head, at least to achieve my goal of building a system with relatively lower distortion through the mid band than anything I currently have.

              But the FR88EX looks fine past 4K. HD looks good. Only $23...I'll eat leftovers for a few days instead of going out for lunch.:D Will it play low enough to meet the RS225-4 without resorting to the use of very steep slopes? This will be my first 3-way, so fewer components means fewer things I might screw up!:p
              I doubt you'll really notice the 2KHz HD spike, considering how low it is (<1%). The natural response of the RS100 lends itself nicely to a 4KHz XO point.

              But as Rick said, there's another issue to consider, and that is off-axis performance at the crossover point. Smaller mids are needed.

              I'd substitute the RS52 for the RS100. It can easily reach the desired XO point with decent off axis performance higher up, and it will easily pair itself with the RS225, as low as 600Hz LR4.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

                But as Rick said, there's another issue to consider, and that is off-axis performance at the crossover point. Smaller mids are needed.
                See, I knew I was overlooking something! That's why I consult the experts before jumping in the deep end! And as it happens, Froste has a pair of RS52s for sale. :D
                Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

                  Originally posted by tom_s View Post
                  See, I knew I was overlooking something! That's why I consult the experts before jumping in the deep end! And as it happens, Froste has a pair of RS52s for sale. :D
                  You have the drivers there for a potentially super-clean 3-way.

                  I would think a 3rd order LP filter on the woofer, a 2nd order HP on the mid for LR4 slopes somewhere near 700Hz, and a 2nd order LP with trap (to tame the 13KHz breakup on the RS52) should be all you need. The XO for the RS52 is pretty straight forward and doesn't need to be overly complex.

                  Below is a circuit that provides LR4 slopes, with the top end at 3500Hz or so.

                  This layout can be easily modified to conform to what you'll need in yours with some value changes.

                  I ran a sim of the RS52 on a 10" wide baffle, center mount, and came up with values for 700Hz and 4000Hz LR4 slopes and an 87dB target sensitivity (about right for your RS225-4 and some baffle step compensation).

                  The 5.2 Ohm resistor changes to 3.3
                  10uF changes to 12uF
                  1mH input inductor changes to .7mH
                  .15uF trap capacitor changes to .22uF
                  15uF changes to 10uF
                  1mH shunt changes to .8mH.



                  Last edited by Pete Schumacher; 02-20-2010, 12:29 PM. Reason: came up with some values.
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

                    Why not a single CAM55, and beg Paul for his mid/ribbon xover? The CAM55 performs identical to the MDM55 but has an easy-to-recess round faceplate, and price is $60. I don't expect you'll be able to use the xover without alterations but it's a good starting point and it's a proven combination.

                    BTW, with true ribbons, you need to use a resistor in series with the CD1 so that your amp sees a reasonable load. This corrects what Wolf meant by a "short".
                    - John

                    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Dr. M. L. King
                    www.BuildTheDream.org

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

                      You'll have to beg Rick Craig for the crossover design. He designed the crossover for the canTiLenas. I had Rick do this design because of his specific expertise working with the MDM55, and Rick considers this design as proprietary to Selah Audio. I've never shared the component values of this crossover with anyone.
                      Paul

                      Originally posted by HareBrained View Post
                      Why not a single CAM55, and beg Paul for his mid/ribbon xover? The CAM55 performs identical to the MDM55 but has an easy-to-recess round faceplate, and price is $60. I don't expect you'll be able to use the xover without alterations but it's a good starting point and it's a proven combination.

                      BTW, with true ribbons, you need to use a resistor in series with the CD1 so that your amp sees a reasonable load. This corrects what Wolf meant by a "short".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

                        Paul K, Rick, or anyone else - how close are are the Fountek specs to actual measurements? Anyone have accurate 3rd party graphs they could share? Comparing response for the NeoCd2, Zaph shows less rise than Fountek's measurements. Still, the trends seem to be there and I am hoping this is consistent throughout the line.

                        Tom
                        Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

                          Wow, thanks Pete! That gives a great starting point. With a dome like this, what would you use for the Z offset? Just from what I can see in the photo, it looks like the dome attaches to the voice coil at about the depth of the back side of the flange, just like a regular dome tweeter. So, 0 offset in Z?
                          Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

                            Originally posted by tom_s View Post
                            Wow, thanks Pete! That gives a great starting point. With a dome like this, what would you use for the Z offset? Just from what I can see in the photo, it looks like the dome attaches to the voice coil at about the depth of the back side of the flange, just like a regular dome tweeter. So, 0 offset in Z?
                            maybe just a hair forward of that, since the acoustic center is likely somewhere in the dome itself.

                            In all likelihood, it's going to be very close to where the ribbon is. Changing the slope of the mid or tweet will help align things in the XO region when the time comes for final tweaking.

                            One other point. If you add a shunt resistor to the mid, say 18 Ohm, then it becomes easier to adjust the mid level to "dial it in."
                            R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                            Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                            95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                            "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fountek NeoCD1.0

                              Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                              You'll have to beg Rick Craig for the crossover design. He designed the crossover for the canTiLenas. I had Rick do this design because of his specific expertise working with the MDM55, and Rick considers this design as proprietary to Selah Audio. I've never shared the component values of this crossover with anyone.
                              Paul
                              If you want to share it that's fine with me. That will make the design fully public domain.

                              Comment

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