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  • on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

    Introducing the Nano Neos.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Inserted on 1.13.11.

    (please see my NN/ntn album for the latest crossovers)

    The ND105-4s are on sale for a couple months (probably) at $14.90 a pop, not $12 like last year, but still a great value. It's fine to read this earlier historical thread, and to look at the pictures, but for the latest crossover versions, you should look at the ones posted in my album. I've smoothed out about a +3dB bump around 2-3kHz, that existed last October. I've also got VERY similar response curves now for all 3 crossovers:

    1) the "original" (budget) Nano Neos XO has been altered a bit, but I've held the price, so with the woofers on sale, a pair can be yours for about $61.

    2) a "non-budget" XO, that includes a 2nd order HP (added a small shunt coil to help integrate the tweeter better), with a more normal looking rolloff, AND I'm suggesting using a poly cap on the tweeter instead of the npe.

    3) the "ntn" XO, for my MTM version of the Nano Neos. It uses a series pair of the ND105-4s.

    All resistors can be the cheap 0.24c 5w jobs, except I'd be happier if you splurge for a 10w on the "ntn" Zobel. THOSE are 0.39c each. Double drivers means more power, and more power means more heat.

    eoi
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    These are 4" 2-ways in a 0.3 cf vented box using the ND105-4 woofer and the ND20FA-6 tweeter. They can musically output a 32 Hz test tone (REALLY, at about -10dB) and play strongly from 40Hz up. I know they can cleanly reach lower than BR-1s (as unbelieveable as it sounds).

    This project really started around the Holidays when I bought a WT3 on sale (for $67 IIRC). Right around that time, the 2010 catalog came out, and I first saw the 6 "NEW" ND woofers. I thought all their Q's were a bit high for vented boxes, and the Fs figures didn't really impress me. Also, Dayton had a new (cheap) pair of 6.5" 2-ways for $30-something a pair. I started thinking about building an uber-budget project, and for a price point, I picked $55 (which just happens to be my age). All I could come up with (for $27.50 per side) was a DC130 and the ND20-6 tweeter. I couldn't afford ANY coil after the driver cost (almost $26.50 just for the woofer and tweeter), so the woofer had to run "full-range" (just like the big boys do it), and I had about $1 left for a cap and padding resistor for the tweeter. It wouldn't be pretty.

    Fast forward to the March/April flyer. Hey, that ND105-4 is ON SALE for $12. That's less than half price! THAT gives me an extra $6.50 per cab I could spend on the XO. I could actually put a coil on the woofer!

    Not only THAT, but hey, THESE specs are not the same as the ones were in my new catalog that I got a few months back. The 105-4's Fs has dropped from 77 Hz down to 54 ! So, off my order went.

    I ran my WT3 on my 4 new drivers and got an average Fs of 1840 Hz on the tweeters. For the woofers my WT3 gave me these values (after break-in): Qts = 0.48 (quite a bit lower than advertised - which I liked), Fs = 56 (a LOT closer to the new spec of 54 Hz than to the old 77, also good), and a Vas of 0.13.

    After a few runs with WinISD Pro, I decided on a 0.32 cf cab, but as I laid out a cut sheet, I discovered that I could fit all but one of the smallest panels (a 6" x 11" scrap would be needed for ONE bottom) onto a 3/4" x 24" x 48" "handy panel". I bought mine at the local "Menard's" for $3.49. I downsized the box just a bit to 0.30 cf with outside dims of 14-7/8"h x 5-7/8"w x 10-3/8"d. For the rear vent I used an old cardboard shipping tube with an id of 1-1/2" and a length of 8" for an Fb of 41Hz. WinISD predicted an F3 of 39Hz. Rediculous! How much output could a 4" woofer really have at 40 cycles, even with gobs of Xmax? I was soon to find out.

    After fiddling a bit with a prototype crossover, I settled on a 6 element design that's basically 2nd order on the woofer (a coil and "Zobel") and 1st order on the tweeter, just a cap, but with a healthy L-pad for about 9dB of attenuation. The system ends up about 82dB +/-3dB, with 2-3dB of BSC. The Fc is near 4kHz. I used a 3/8" roundover bit on all external edges, and around the inside of the port exit and the backside of the baffle for some woofer relief. I used a scroll saw for the tiny 3-5/8" woofer hole, and circle hole saws for the even smaller tweeter (1-1/4" circle hole saw), the port tube (1-5/8"), and the "dreaded" spring terminals (2").

    Here's a shopping cart list (the woofers are only on sale to the end of June - unless PE extends it by ANOTHER 2 mos !). As you can see, I came in 28 cents under budget! At their rated 30w, these little guys only need 7mm of throw to output 38Hz. At 32Hz they exceed that with 8 watts. I DID make them "pop" once, on the right channel, playing some Nirvana, but unless you really go nuts, they seem VERY durable for such deep bass from such tiny boxes. I've had to check to make sure my 12" sub wasn't on (low) a few times already. They can't rattle my basement door like the big sub, but for cheap little speakers, they CAN let you hear the entire recorded range.

    In my budget, I didn't include terminals, ports, foam lining (everywhere but the front baffle), or boxes. Mine cost me about $2 apiece, but this project would work very well in the 0.25 cf boxes that PE sells with very little reduction in bass extension (of course, this will triple or quadruple the project price). I'd use the 1-3/8" dia. vent (260-388) and cut it to 8" for the curved box, and 7" for the "traditional" box. The 8" won't comfortably fit in there since the box is a bit shallower.

    Drawings will follow in a day or two (maybe some additional pictures too).

    Chris
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Chris Roemer; 06-12-2011, 10:35 AM.

  • #2
    Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

    Those look great! I'm going with white as well on my latest project- looks .... I don't know... cleaner.
    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy." --Winston Churchill

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

      nice build chris. that is an amazing little driver.
      " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

      Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
      Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

      http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
      http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

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      • #4
        Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

        Looks great! Perhaps people will believe you! No one seemed to believe when I finished the New Horizons they cold play to 40 cleanly... Like the white. Great lil driver! Did you run across any lead-slapping issues?
        .

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        • #5
          Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

          Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
          Looks great! Perhaps people will believe you! No one seemed to believe when I finished the New Horizons they cold play to 40 cleanly... Like the white. Great lil driver! Did you run across any lead-slapping issues?
          Nope. I WAS testing with the driver in the vented box with all sides glued up except the top, and down at 50 and 40 cycles I could hear a loud "buzzing" sound and thought about your problem, but the little guy was lifting the inset top panel, making it resonate. A couple heavy books solved the problem.

          Did you have cabinet issues as well? I made mine from 3/4" PB, and they're fully glued. I made sure I could fit the XO through the woofer hole in case it ever needed to come out. I ran a 1" sq brace from side to side, just above the port tube, but it was more for a place to mount the XO (that I could reach) than for cabinet bracing.

          I've got a pair of 8" mains (DC28/DC200) in 2 cf cabs, and I got to love listening to tunes with VERY deep bass (B52's, Mark Knopfler's "Rudiger", Sheryl Crow, and other Dire Straits stuff). My BR-1 clones just can't reach that low, and so, those songs aren't as interesting to me on them, but with these little guys I can appreciate all those bottom end notes. All the box modeling I've done, even with my own T/S parms, show the output to be 9 or 10dB down at my 32Hz test tone, but it "sounds" like maybe only -6dB to me. You can really HEAR that tone as a "musical" note!

          Currently I've got these up on a table that our 42" LCD sits on, with the tweeters at ear level and about 8" of clearance to the back wall. They image better pointed straight out, rather than toed in. For music (if you don't need really high SPL - I think these can almost reach 99dB), you can hear everything that's in the recording (except maybe pipe organ stuff), but I'd say that they will NOT be happy if used for HT explosions without a heftier sub. At 10mm of throw (mechanical limit) they can move more air than a "Classic" 5-1/4" MtM or a 6-1/2" TM, reach lower, AND can do all this in only .3 cubic feet. They aren't very efficient though.

          Chris
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

            Those look really nice, Chris.

            Awesome performance, especially for that little caysh!


            Mark
            You go your way, I'll go mine. I don't care if we get there on time.

            ~Pink Floyd

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            • #7
              Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

              How is this thread not getting more attention?!

              Sweet project, I'm going to build some and buy some extra nd105s for later use.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

                Sweet!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

                  Originally posted by kmibb View Post
                  How is this thread not getting more attention?!

                  Sweet project, I'm going to build some and buy some extra nd105s for later use.

                  That's why I bumped it last night...these are serious bang for the buck, and...dare I say it...deserve some consideration from PE for the Showcase!

                  Well done, Chris!


                  Mark
                  You go your way, I'll go mine. I don't care if we get there on time.

                  ~Pink Floyd

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Buy 2 woofers - tweets & XO FREE . . .


                    Well, not exactly, but next month a pair of ND105-4's will cost $52. Get them NOW for $24 a pair, and it's like getting the ND20's and all the crossover parts for only 3 additional dollars!

                    As I've read over my posts on this project, I figured there might be some people out there who are on the fence since they just don't have a small scrap of 3/4" stock for the 12th box panel. Since I've stated that these would work well in PE's 0.25 cf boxes, I decided to see just what it would take to get all 12 panels out of a single 2' x 4' panel. Here's my cut sheet to do just that. It assumes that you can cut very accurately with a table saw, and that its blade is no more than 1/8" thick. If you look at my layout, you can see that my panels are also sized for my preferred method of joinery, namely cutting a 3/8" rabbet along all internal edges, as shown on the cabinet view. This sheet is labeled "Nano Neos NS", for "No Scrap" (required).

                    Thess will be exactly like the Nano Neos, except that I made the box 3/4" shallower, allowing all 12 panels to be cut from one handi-panel. The box volume shrinks only slightly from 0.30 cf to 0.28. I'd NOW use a 1-3/8" dia. port with a 7" length. The same one I'd recommend for use with the little Dayton cabinets.

                    You CAN hear air blowing out the vent around 40 cycles with test tones at high levels, even with the roundover, so if it were me, I'd still go for the slightly larger box with the slightly larger vent, but that's just me.

                    Chris
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

                      I do need a gift for a family member....


                      i just might be ordering parts
                      My projects
                      https://picasaweb.google.com/112307725038877176664

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mtm?

                        For an MTM, could the 105's could be wired in series for an 8 ohm load, with the coil changed to .88 mh and the zobel w/ a 4 ohm resistor and a 5uf cap?

                        In theory, the sensitivity of the two in series (8 ohms) should equal the single 4 ohm driver, and the tweeter x-over could remain the same?

                        Would this work?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mtm?

                          Originally posted by cooper View Post
                          For an MTM, could the 105's could be wired in series for an 8 ohm load, with the coil changed to .88 mh and the zobel w/ a 4 ohm resistor and a 5uf cap?

                          In theory, the sensitivity of the two in series (8 ohms) should equal the single 4 ohm driver, and the tweeter x-over could remain the same?

                          Would this work?

                          It SHOULD work. AND, two of them should be able to move as much air as a single Classic 8" at about 9mm of throw. Their Xmax is only 4mm, past that, the coil is moving out of the gap (added distortion), but they don't hit the back plate until 10mm; unlike the Classics which can sound like a machine gun when transients come along.

                          If I wanted to break my budget though (as you're suggesting), one of the 1st things I'd want to do would be to add a shunt coil to protect that little tweeter better.

                          Chris

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                          • #14
                            Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

                            Chris - If you did break the budget to add a shunt coil to tweeter on the original Nano Neo design, what would its value be?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

                              this thread encouraged me to order 4 ND105's that i'll make MTM's out of....someday :D :D Any thoughts on a design for this? Musings? OP, that is a really sweet setup...i've been dying to take advantage of this deal :D You don't have a picture of the finished xover do you?
                              The TK421 kicks it up another 3 or 4 quads per channel.

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