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My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

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  • My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

    I would first like to offer up a great deal of thanks to the folks at PE for doing a great job of hosting this year. Every employee (even though working) seemed to have a decent time. I would also like to thank Don Keele, Jerry McNutt, and Michael Mardis for trying to give some of a fair shot at what we love in a friendly competition, as well as being interested in what we all created. At one point I heard 42 projects were expected, and I count 40 in attendance in the pictures.

    I would like to also say there were a group of faces there Saturday that I had not seen or heard of before, but were still able to do some really good design jobs. I'm sorry I didn't get to know all of you, as we are all peas in a pod.... Please help me remember your names and projects if they're omitted.

    The Music was indeed kinda screwy in my opinion as well, but I knew a few of the tracks were decent. The first track of the day was by Allison Krauss, and the first of the 2nd/3rd group was James Taylor. The snaps in the 2/2 spot really gave a decent review of the decay status of the design, and some had more impulse stability than others. The 1/3 classical piece was fairly muted and not very dynamic, so it just gave a bit of instrument-curiosity, rather than being critical. 2/3 was a country song that really pulled me into the music on the good designs, and conveyed the emotion well.

    On to the attendees/projects, and these are just my opinions and might not be heard as someone else heard. From the entry door on the back of the hotel, I will work clockwise.

    -The first one present was the planar-array by _____ and his stack of gear to run them. I heard these were hand-made drivers, and recently patented. I was not expecting bass from them at all being what they were, but was blown away by their extension and pristine qualities across the board. Well done!


    -The next 2 pair I believe were from _____, and were an active-omni and CD-waveguide combo. The active in one was dead, so I can't give a good review there, but the waveguided wedges I felt were a little nasal, and directivity was very strong due to the quad DC130 combo in a 2x2 format.


    -The next 3 were all my projects, and while I'm certain I have bias, I will state a few things. "MAX" (M8N/DX25) sounded hot in the treble that day, and it has not in 4 other locations since I fixed that issue originally. The "Tesseracts" (ND16/W3-1364S/Q8) were a fun project, and do a lot of things right while still being fun with some slam.
    The "Attitudes" (RSS210HF-4/Usher 9845/HiVi RT1C-A) are a lovely piece, and when they ran not everyone had come back from the break yet. A lot of people were pleased with these (3rd/>200), and the finish was accepted quite well with 'hands-on' throughout the day in admiration. Yes- those are the xover cases next to the Tess'...


    -This next shot has quite a few in it, so I'm going to hit these all at once.

    The W6-1139/W5-704D/Morel CAT298's by Johnathan Bluhm placed 2nd in Unlimited spot, and were a little hot on top I think. Behind those were Tom Bond's "multipersonal pairx2 with oriental hostility" (RS180/DQ25/RS100/ND20), and both sounded quite balanced and smooth. Jim Griffin's MLTL sets of Jordan/AurumCantus and FR125/RT1.3 bipolar towers were once again a hit. Jordan's still aren't for me, but Jim's Bipoles won a <200 1st spot.
    Brian's little TB 3" FR boogers are peeking gently around the corner there, and sounded better than expected in the large room. There was a JVC/Onkyo 'peg-mounted' speaker hidden there by ____ as well, and it had no bass, but was not offensive to any degree. The Onkyo was a little hot, or the tonal-balance made it sound that way. There was a Morel WTMW (Morel MW166or8/MDM55/MDT22or40) 3-way that might've had a woofer in the left channel wired out of phase as the image shifted to the right. I'm sorry I don't recall who made those.

    -First on the left-front wall were the "CBT arrays". Being they were in exhibition, I'll still give my 2 cents. I like them! Impact and fireworks/gunshots were very fast and realistic (:eek::D), and music was also neat. Most of where you went they sounded the same, and they were very smooth. I wouldn't build the pending design unless you CNC for those 76 tweeters/cab! :eek: The sub was pretty cool too...


    -Up front was Wayne/Curt's shipped-in version of the "Aviatrix MLTL's" that played off/on Friday and early Saturday. In that room, the midbass was a little murky, the vocals required texture, and I thought the tweeter was a hair polite. That said- they were very neutral and easy aurally. They sounded very good.


    The 'black-box' is the Majik Buss I brought to filter the lines, and someone did hear a difference in swap on the Aviatrices, so we used it all day. The amp was a QSC GX3/5, and I don't recall the CD source. Karl used an RTA sytem with a proto-omni mic the course of the day for a brief sound check/pink noise.

    -On the other side of the gear was the "Made in America" by Bogdan Petrescu. It took the win in the >200 class with a Seas 8" and Seas T25-001. Trans-Lam construction is his norm, and they were well-put together. I thought the bass was a bit light, but elsewise very nice. Next to those were Ray's "Big Bobs" as a realistic modern/old-school hybrid. RS270/RS52/and an OW1 tweeter. I thought the mids need some realism, most of you know I just don't care for the RS52. Otherwise they were very nice. George 'Moosespeaker' sent his "SPOOSE" (Peerless 3.5"/2") to Amy for demo, and they still have a great sound IMO, especially for his first solo-run.


    -Next is another large group. Brad (absolootbs) brought his version of my "Dragon Foals", Paul's "OS's", and Mike Z's "New Horizons" (which he assembled on the way into town). Decent cabinets, and a sound that is acceptable is what we got- you done good, newb! Ray's 'boombox with Apex-Vifa coaxes' did the job as intended, but need more power. ____'s patriotic behemoths were decent, but I felt could have more bass extension and benefit from some polyfil in the mid-cabs, or a little further tweaked xover. Paul K's SB 3-way, "Sonatellos", I was actually kinda disappointed with, and that is not typical from the Paul/Dan conspiracy. They were balanced and smooth, but just lacklustered, IMPO. The cabinets were pretty though!! They got 2nd/>200.


    -Dan's "Blades" (22TAFG/MDM55/2xRS180/RSS265+240W) won the Unlimited category, and Ed Froste's "Aviatrix-Nemesis"(:D) won the Dayton class. I liked Ed's better than the Aviatrix, but he did have an RS270 helping him out... Nice job fellas!


    -Further back the right wall, Paul Carmody's "Swope HT" (M6a/M5a/ND28/SP10) made Ed's "Flames" (W6-789/W4-657/25-1372) put bags over their heads in shame, but they all sounded good. I think we shoulda 'opened the can' on the SP10 sub a bit more.....


    Ed's 'BR-1 Clones' behind "Flames" above, lack-bass/little hollow. His bookcase speaks, they're better & clean/full DC160/25-1166.

    Shawn's "Voxxers" (Dynavox 6.5"/Usher 9930) were much improved since I last heard them, and was probably the best sounding small 2-way of the day.
    The next 2 pairs (Seas/Peerless5.25, ND90-FR) both placed in their categories, and were made by Eric Levenchuck. Didn't see this guy coming! Very well done. I liked them both.


    -LeoF's Ohm-Omni's (top-hat drivers) were one I'd heard before, and placed 2nd in the Unlimited category. Steve Katz's "Bexler" (I coined them, Exodus6.5/SB25) I believe sounded better than my MAX did that day, but we may have toasted a tweeter or had a buzz that got offensive a bit. It had some grain that was not present before. Big-Jeff's "Resawn Nightmares" (W4-1320SC) did very well for a 4" FR dealio, but lacked the top-octave. Got Stuffing??


    -Ed LaFontaine's "whatever you call-mettle" did very well. (B&C/Eminence12)The cabinets were beautiful as usual, and the sound was clean. Very Dynamic speaker! The 'laid-down vases' by David Crewe were also very impressive in sound and from a woodworker's standpoint. Being a 'self-called newb', his design was impressive to me. SHINY!!! :D


    -His name is "Kata", and his 'smiling keyboards' "P-nocchios" (DC160-iso/Fostex 4"/dual PT2-C) didn't sound bad at all! Thanks for making the trip, and being creative! (not pictured here) second place in Dayton class, IIRC.

    -The "BIG JBL SPEAKERS" were that- BIG. Not much top-end treble on them, and you had to stand-up to be in the sweetest spot, but they were not unlistenable. Bass was a little lean. I'm glad he was the one who packed/brought them...

    Hope this is informative, and thanks if you read it all the way through.....
    Later,
    Wolf
    Last edited by Wolf; 07-25-2010, 09:57 PM. Reason: Names/places...
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

  • #2
    Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    The next 2 pairs (Seas/Peerless5.25, ND90-FR) both placed in their categories, and were made by _____. Didn't see this guy coming! Very well done. I liked them both.
    very nice writeup, wolf. i can fill in one of your blanks for you. the designer/builder of these was a guy named Eric Levenchuck. GF and i spent some time talking with he and his family (i really liked his 2-way and i'm a sucker for dogs). very nice people. pretty sure they said they were from somewhere up in the sandusky area.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

      Thanks! fixed it.

      Later,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

        thanks wolf, for those of us that could not make it, very helpful. these were all demo'd way away from the wall like at grinell? i dont think anyone tunes for this circumstance. your thoughts?
        " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

        Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
        Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

        http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
        http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

          Very cool, thanks Wolf. Nice pics and thanks for the names. I didn't get many names. Need to get a list from Rich.

          You said that you are in love with your Attitudes 3 ways. I could hear why! By far your best entry and one of the best at the show. You picked great drivers and did superb crossover work. Bravo! They didn't look half bad, either. ;)

          BTW - Isn't that the same midrange that Gershman uses in their tower?

          Agreed again on the music. It's never going to be easy to pick - and what was played this year was nice, but most of it not really challenging. It made it hard to judge dynamics and low end extension. I know it would have driven most people mad, but I could have just listened to the 1st 3 cuts all day.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

            Ben, with the music that was used to judge the over $200 Class, it's no wonder my Sonatellos, as well as all of the other speakers (unless they had a tipped up treble) seemed to lack luster. You need to hear them playing music that's just not vocals and has more dynamics. I was very disappointed with the music used for this class, even though it was applied to all of the entries.
            Paul

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

              Originally posted by panomaniac View Post
              I know it would have driven most people mad, but I could have just listened to the 1st 3 cuts all day.
              Ditto. The Alison Krauss track was a good challenge for most speakers. And the 3rd track ("Candide" by Bernstein) is just a fun song and stays enjoyable for many listens. I sort of wish they'd just kept the first 3 tracks, although that does get annoying by the end of the day.

              The rest of the tracks used during the day weren't especially challenging, except for the James Taylor, who tends to be hard to get right on many speakers.
              Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

              Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
              Twitter: @undefinition1

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My thoughts

                I had a good time this year. Getting to chat with lots of different speaker enthusiasts was fun, although I didn't get a chance to talk to all the people I normally like to.

                PE worked really hard to organize the event, and there were lots of nice little details: using the RTA mic to normalize volume, having someone guard the door to keep people from wandering in and out during listening, goodie bags, shirts, and of course, free snacks and drinks!

                Probably my favorite thing about these events is getting to see the creativity and woodworking talent people put into their projects. There was no shortage of that this year: from the "uncle sam" towers, to the turned "vases," the homemade cardboard electrostats, the P-nocchio (I only wish I was that creative to think of something like that), Wolf's "Tesseracts," Ed's E-wave, and many more.

                Sonically, the two standouts to me were Wolf's "Attitudes," which were the one of the only speakers of the day to get James Taylor's voice to sound right, and Jim Griffin's bipole with the FR125 with their very large, 3-dimensional soundstage. Oh, and the AviaTrix were also a very solid design; sonically, they're ready to compete with the 2-way towers costing thousands of dollars at boutique HiFi dealers.

                And to top it all off, I got a few great buys at the tent sale, as well as stocking up on a few "necessities" (all while enjoying that 20% discount).

                Great job, PE!
                Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

                Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
                Twitter: @undefinition1

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

                  Arrggghhhh...... Now I really wish I had put my foot down and insisted on better music cuts. We could have stayed with the 1st three. I was very close to insisting, but being a noob at the contest, didn't.

                  Maybe we need to start a list of cuts for next year.
                  We need tracks for:
                  • bass extension
                  • dynamics
                  • imaging
                  • male & female vocal

                  Tonal balance can be judged on the above tracks pretty easily.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

                    Mike- I don't know what mid Gershman uses. Thanks for your comments above, but I think PE (Carl?) picks the tracks. We've not had the option since they went to a competition format. Last year the tracks weren't that much better. Hope to see you in Iowa....

                    Paul- You know I love James Taylor! :D When that track started, I was just soooo happy that it was James. Thank you for the compliment!


                    Oh- and so everyone knows- I was not bashing Ed's "Flames" above in my walkaround. It was just a jab at having covers over the cabinets. I helped Ed design them, and I like them a lot.

                    Later,
                    Wolf
                    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                    *InDIYana event website*

                    Photobucket pages:
                    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

                      Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                      Ben, with the music that was used to judge the over $200 Class, it's no wonder my Sonatellos, as well as all of the other speakers (unless they had a tipped up treble) seemed to lack luster. You need to hear them playing music that's just not vocals and has more dynamics. I was very disappointed with the music used for this class, even though it was applied to all of the entries.
                      Paul
                      I'm sure that was part of it.
                      I look forward to another audition in Iowa, should I still be able to go.
                      Later,
                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

                        Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                        Ben, with the music that was used to judge the over $200 Class, it's no wonder my Sonatellos, as well as all of the other speakers (unless they had a tipped up treble) seemed to lack luster. You need to hear them playing music that's just not vocals and has more dynamics. I was very disappointed with the music used for this class, even though it was applied to all of the entries.
                        Paul
                        Based upon the Posts of Frustration over the MAF musical choices it sure does make you appreciate the selections Doug and the guys make for the Iowa event!

                        Wolfie, you gotta be there!

                        Marty

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

                          Great tour. Thanks, Wolf.

                          Minor correction on the Big Bobs, the tweeter is the Hiquphon OW1. I'm not sure what "more realism" means but thanks for the feedback. I'll see what I can do.

                          The boombox was limited by the T-amp guts. The speakers will take more but the practicality of the T-amp just made it an easy choice. When it gets pushed too hard (or the batteries start to sag) the distortion is truly awe inspiring. Works great when you're laying under a truck working and have it sitting 4' away.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

                            Thanks for all the input, especially on the music tracks. We did have the one mistake where the one set was played into a new category. My apologies. As far as selection of tracks, we welcome suggestions always. This has been a difficult thing to do, especially finding the right quality and characteristics we need. So, please feel free to make recommendations, and if possible point us to a specific source for the tracks.

                            Thanks again everyone! It was a blast!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: My 'virtual walkaround' of MWAF/Dayton 2010...

                              Wolf-

                              You are a fine wordsmith as well as speaker designer/builder. A very nice writeup indeed.

                              I'm looking forward to getting a little more experience under my belt and then joining you guys at next year's event. It would be a great time to meet and converse with all of the fine people here on the PE message board.

                              Glad to hear everyone had fun, it looked like a blast. And.. congrats to all of the designers and builders who entered the competition, winners and non-winners alike.


                              Johnny Ravo
                              "I could get a better look at a t-bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's a**, but I'd just as soon take my butcher's word for it."

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