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After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

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  • Paul K.
    replied
    Re: Sonatellos or canTiLenas...

    No, Todd, I didn't intend for this trend to develop or to hijack Wolf's thread, but it is interesting and somewhat amusing. I do appreciate people chiming in with their opinions and suggestions. There's no doubt the SS woofer in the canTiLenas is better than the SB woofer in the Sonatallos but unless one plays them both very loud, louder than I normally do, you really can't hear the difference. The SS woofer has a much larger Xmax and, due to different types of midrange drivers used in the two designs, the SS woofer covers an octave higher into the midrange. The modeled F3s are the same; however, the canTiLena is an ML-TL and the Sonatello is a tapered TL, thus, the shapes of the two response curves are different below the knee in the curves. There is one distinct advantage to the canTiLenas, all other comparisons set aside. Since moving to this house in 2003 and setting up my main audio system in the living room, the speakers sit on opposite ends of the fireplace hearth with their backs close to the fireplace wall (a corner fireplace). All of the speakers since designed have had only 3 dB of BSC included, which is enough to allow their bass response to be good both here and at DIY events, not either lacking or boomy and not affected much my placement. The Sonatellos were designed to not need any BSC by having the woofer mounted low on the baffle, using the floor boundary for bass reinforcement. On some CDs, depending on the recording and musical content, the Sonatello's bass is too much of a good thing, and I have to move them forward about 18" from the wall, making it a nuisance due to their size and weight. The canTiLenas sound the same wherever they're placed fore and aft. So, I really haven't made a final decision because it's a difficult one to make. Both designs have pros and cons but I can't continue to have both in the room.:(
    Paul

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  • scottsehlin
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    I have a tough time with the Cantilena vs. Sonatello debate.

    Regarding the Cantilena - the Scanspeak woofer was maybe the best I have ever heard - but I thought that the MDM-55 was just slightly too laid back. It disappeared and blended in to the point that one couldn't really hear its character. To me, the great thing about Maynard's Tsu-Jan was the voicing of the mids. The MDM-55 was brought forward just enough to hear it's sweetness, but not so much as to introduce shoutiness.

    On to the Sonatello - I was sitting close to Wolf when he picked up on something with the brass. My first thought was that I was enjoying just the right amount of "bite". The brass didn't quite come forward in the mix like it usually does, so I guess that might be the flatness that he heard. I liked how the Sonatello was voiced overall but the SB woofer is not in the same league as the aluminum Scan IMHO.

    I'll have more on the rest of the entries later - but I guess my vote will go to the Sonatello.

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  • tpremo55
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    Originally posted by maynardg View Post
    If I get a vote, I vote Cantilenas.
    +1 for the Cantilenas.
    ...Paul, you really didn't mean to get this started did you? :rolleyes:

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  • martyh
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    The debate between Pauls and Maynards design...I Vote for the Malbatellos.

    And Junior, the Tweeter color? Really? :rolleyes:

    Marty

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  • johnnyrichards
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised by the reaction my little speakers received. Thank you all for your kind words.

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  • theLinks
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    Thanks Wolf for your opinion. I was hoping for more opinions, even if they were different, It gives us something to think about.
    Tim

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  • arlis_1957@yahoo.com
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    thanks john.
    i neglected to mention; i used a metal bypass cap on each cap. a .o1 on the small ones, a .1o on the big ones. i did not have a chance to a/b. the large values are the electroyitic and the smaller ones are metalized poly and the bypass are film and foil poly.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnnyrichards
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    Originally posted by arlis_1957@yahoo.com View Post
    thank your wolf. the tweeter was indeed a bit hot. dennis confirmed that the tweeter was about 2db high. this morning i brought the solder rig to the livingroom and replaced the 2ohm with a 3ohm. much better. for stereo, in my living room with my new newcastle sherwood cd/dvd player, they play very clean. i know it seems a bit bass-akwords but, next up is a 2-way mtm for my boss and then a cc and then a two-way tower for next year.
    I'm going to try and get those tweeters on the baffle tomorrow, Arlis.

    Leave a comment:


  • arlis_1957@yahoo.com
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    thank your wolf. the tweeter was indeed a bit hot. dennis confirmed that the tweeter was about 2db high. this morning i brought the solder rig to the livingroom and replaced the 2ohm with a 3ohm. much better. for stereo, in my living room with my new newcastle sherwood cd/dvd player, they play very clean. i know it seems a bit bass-akwords but, next up is a 2-way mtm for my boss and then a cc and then a two-way tower for next year.

    Leave a comment:


  • maynardg
    replied
    Re: After a week of thought- My Iowa thoughts...

    If I get a vote, I vote Cantilenas.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul K.
    replied
    Re: Hmmm, flat brass?

    Apparently so!:p Anyways, we all hear music differently. Not only that, we have different expectations of how particular music and particular instruments "should" sound, not to mention what types of music we prefer. I definitely would not say the SB neo dimple dome tweeter is the "best" of (write in here whatever seems appropriate). It was more difficult to get right than expected, with "right" being defined by my ears, but I certainly do like it as now implemented in the Sonatellos.
    Paul

    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    So- "We're" the minority then? :D:p
    Heh,
    Wolf

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  • Wolf
    replied
    Re: Hmmm, flat brass?

    So- "We're" the minority then? :D:p
    Heh,
    Wolf

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  • maynardg
    replied
    Re: Hmmm, flat brass?

    I must agree with Wolf. I worked on implementing the SB29 in a derivative of the TzuJan and decided to set them aside far the time being. They just did not satisfy, even though they measured pretty darned well. Tweaking did not get me anywhere. I concluded they just aren't as nice as the Vifa D26NC55's in the TzuJans. Lifeless might describe it.

    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    Jeff-
    I will admit that yours have been among the better implementations of those tweeters for me, with the nod towards the larger of the kits.

    They are definitely not splashy or such, but neither is the RS28a- and I like it a lot more than the SB's. So far, 'natural' has not been the word I'd use to describe the SB dimples, but I guess I'm the minority here. That does not mean they don't do a lot right, but to me, they are just lacking a bit. I know I've touched on my thoughts for certain tweeters before, so I'll stop here before totally derailing the thread, but it seems I've been rather picky lately...

    Later,
    Wolf

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf
    replied
    Re: Hmmm, flat brass?

    Jeff-
    I will admit that yours have been among the better implementations of those tweeters for me, with the nod towards the larger of the kits.

    They are definitely not splashy or such, but neither is the RS28a- and I like it a lot more than the SB's. So far, 'natural' has not been the word I'd use to describe the SB dimples, but I guess I'm the minority here. That does not mean they don't do a lot right, but to me, they are just lacking a bit. I know I've touched on my thoughts for certain tweeters before, so I'll stop here before totally derailing the thread, but it seems I've been rather picky lately...

    Later,
    Wolf

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf
    replied
    Re: Hmmm, flat brass?

    I thought the sound of the brass odd from you, considering you usually pick great symphonic pieces, and the speakers usually play them realistically. That is what I was referring to, not your selections as they were.

    Later,
    Wolf

    Leave a comment:

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