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  • Yamaha vs. Onkyo

    I just purchased an Onkyo tx-nr708 from acc4less (man refurb). I also just finished some tritrixes and ONS. Anyway, while I'm waiting to finish my other TT MT for sats and MTM center for the HT, I temporarily grabbed my old Yamaha rx-v530 out of the basement just to hook up the tt to test them out. Of course, I loved them.. Then I temp hooked up the new Onkyo to them and there was no comparison.. the Yamaha's clarity blew the Onkyo away! Overall sound was literally twice as good. Now, I must say, I'm an onkyo fan and have had the 505 running my HT for a few years and have been very pleased, but have never had them side by side before.
    When I get the other speakers done, I'm going to then insert the new onkyo rcvr into the console and run the audyssey set-up and hope and pray that corrects it. Other than running Audyssey, does anyone have any input on this? And do you think Audyssey is going to correct the sound THAT much? Thx for any input and help in this!
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  • #2
    Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

    I'm not surprised. Yamaha has long had the reputation for "best sound", even when its other "features" didn't stack up to the competition. It has certainly been my experience . . . I've tried a number of different DACs, both embedded and outboard, and I always come back to what's in my RX-V2600 as having the cleanest sound overall. And their amps are consistently good, too. It's really hard to say why that is . . . there's nothing obvious in the circuits or even component choices that stands out as "special" . . . but it's equally obvious that someone actually listens to their prototypes before they make it into production . . .
    "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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    • #3
      Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

      I would have to agree, I am a yammy man myself. The two best I've had were the rx-v3200 and the rx-v2095, both great receivers. The only onkyo item I had that I liked as much was their older M-504 power amp with the meters. The receiver I have now does pretty good, it's the Sony v555es. I think it's one of the better Sony products. I plan on building a trio of mono chipamps, possibly the T3 from hifimediy, to power my mains and center and use the Sony as my pre. Anyone know of an amp that has more power that is as simple to build? Anyways, I haven't heard much onkyo/denon gear that I liked.

      Dan

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      • #4
        Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

        I've listened to both Yamaha and Denon AVR's (800-1600 bucks) in A/B comparisons, using Analog CD inputs and I've found that in a quick listen, the Yamaha seems to have more top end than the Denon, while the Denon sounds like it has more horsepower - stronger bass, etc. It may simply boil down to subtle adjustments of FR at the bottom and top end of the spectrum. On the DAC's, I couldn't say.

        Just on the amps, I did hear a difference though.

        Cheers / Robert

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        • #5
          Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

          Originally posted by cwad8505 View Post
          I just purchased an Onkyo tx-nr708 from acc4less (man refurb). I also just finished some tritrixes and ONS. Anyway, while I'm waiting to finish my other TT MT for sats and MTM center for the HT, I temporarily grabbed my old Yamaha rx-v530 out of the basement just to hook up the tt to test them out. Of course, I loved them.. Then I temp hooked up the new Onkyo to them and there was no comparison.. the Yamaha's clarity blew the Onkyo away! Overall sound was literally twice as good. Now, I must say, I'm an onkyo fan and have had the 505 running my HT for a few years and have been very pleased, but have never had them side by side before.
          When I get the other speakers done, I'm going to then insert the new onkyo rcvr into the console and run the audyssey set-up and hope and pray that corrects it. Other than running Audyssey, does anyone have any input on this? And do you think Audyssey is going to correct the sound THAT much? Thx for any input and help in this!
          Make sure you test both in "direct" mode, i.e., no signal processing. It's possible that the Onkyo had some processing enabled while the Yamaha didn't. The next test would be to pour through the manuals for both and determine the "optimal" 2, 2.1, and / or 5.1 configuration and set that up for comparison.

          Honestly, for Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, and other mid-fi brands, I wouldn't expect to hear much of a difference unless one is clipping, the impedance is a tough load, or there are some additional A/D conversions in the processing loop.

          Regards,

          Rob

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          • #6
            Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

            Thanks for all your input.. I will run the Audyssey tomorrow (ran out of time today working on the MT's..) and give it a run.. I think in the end, the Yammy is just a better sound and Onkyo has all the bells and whistles.... I will post back after I'd played around with it.. thx again! Chris..

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            • #7
              Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

              Originally posted by weinstro View Post
              Honestly, for Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, and other mid-fi brands, I wouldn't expect to hear much of a difference
              Please take no offense, but I find statements like this a bit hard to swallow.

              It would take a lot of listening, of a lot of different hardware, under rather controlled conditions, to draw such a conclusion.

              There are so many variables.

              Form does not follow function
              Form is simultaneous to function

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              • #8
                Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

                http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_pwr.htm
                http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf
                http://www.matrixhifi.com/ENG_contenedor_ppec.htm

                Draw your own conclusions,

                Dan
                "guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
                http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
                http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

                  dantheman,

                  link 1: preference test with mid 90's amplifiers finds some differences detected among SS amplifiers, and large difference when comparing tube to SS.
                  link 2: ABX test with mid 80's solid state amplifiers showed some pair differences and other not. (Using the total correct/incorrect counts to suggest no difference is misleading because 2 amps that sound the same will have higher chance of negative correlation, and using this to cancel positive correlation in other tests leads to a dubious conclusion.)
                  link 3: early digital era SS equiptment shows split preference between high-cost and low-cost systems.

                  My conclusions: these tests have low relevance to selecting modern amplifiers driven by high quality digital source componentry: Cookie cutter LIN amps may all be nearly indistinguishable: If systems with HQ modern drivers are more likely to illuminate differences among amplifiers, these links provide little guidance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

                    A really big factor to consider these days is how seamlessly the unit "handshakes" via hdmi with other components in the system. There's a lot of info going back and forth, and there are units out there with bugs and weird issues. Long load times, aspect rations wrong, up-conversion issues, video processing issues, etc. Make sure you read lots of reviews and in-depth discussions on sites like AVSforum.

                    For instance, my dad, a very tech-savvy veteran EE, is looking at getting a new receiver... his highest priority is Blu Ray playback... he almost pulled the trigger on the Onkyo 608, but then he came across the following issue:

                    "I'm looking at the Onkyo SR- 608's problems. One is that there can be some stuttering from some blu ray players when video processing is turned on in the 608. It fixes when you turn off the 'video processing'.

                    Turning it off is the same as forcing it to do hdmi straight through, which is what I want. Evidently, when you turn it off, you turn off the OSD display. Yuck."

                    This is maybe not catastrophic, but it was enough to turn him off from the 608, based on the functionality he was most interested in. There are lots of little issues like this out there. Do your research.
                    Form does not follow function
                    Form is simultaneous to function

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

                      Hey Cantingas, you can draw your own conclusions. Congratulations! Don't expect me to knock you for it. That's just what I said we should do. I was just presenting a body of evidence. The fact that the results are so similar should be enlightening.

                      For instance, let's say there is an audible difference between the Yammy and the Onkyo amplifier section when all is equal. After everything is set up well, which is more accurate? Which is preferred? What's the real order of magnitude of the difference?

                      Any predictions?

                      Dan
                      "guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
                      http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
                      http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

                        Originally posted by dantheman View Post
                        Hey, you can draw your own conclusions. Congratulations! Don't expect me to knock you for it. That's just what I said we should do. I was just presenting a body of evidence. The fact that the results are so similar should be enlightening.

                        For instance, let's say there is an audible difference between the Yammy and the Onkyo amplifier section when all is equal. After everything is set up well, which is more accurate? Which is preferred? What's the real order of magnitude of the difference?

                        Any predictions?

                        Dan
                        As per my recent post just above, technical issues, or lack thereof, can outweigh slight differences in sound quality (if there in fact are any differences), by a mile.
                        Form does not follow function
                        Form is simultaneous to function

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

                          Agreed Lunch.

                          Dan
                          "guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
                          http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
                          http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

                            By the time you put the box in your room, with your gear, your acoustics, your ears, I suspect differences in audible quality will be subtle at best. I have had Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, & H-K gear in the house.

                            At this point, for an AV receiver, I'd have to look at features, setup flexibility, the menu logic, the users manual AND THE REMOTE as more important than the amplifier section.

                            As long as the receiver remembers the settings I have tuned in for listening situations, and my wife can figure out, (and use) the remote I've got most of what I need.
                            Lou's Speaker Site [speakers.lonesaguaro.com]
                            "Different" is objective, "better" is subjective. Taste is not a provable fact.
                            Where are you John Galt? I may not be worthy, but I'm ready.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Yamaha vs. Onkyo

                              Entire system installed, Audyssey ran. I now have no complaints! I certainly don't have the ear that many of you do for these sort of things, however, I am very content with the sound. My only gripe is that now that I have the option to add front wide and front high with this receiver, I see myself building more TT MT's for the front high portion of this set-up. Also am in the process of trying to figure out what I want to build for the rear surrounds.. either going with new horizons (seems like such a waste for such awesome speakers) or an AURA 3" full ranger in a small cube (seems much more practical for this app). I now need to spend a little time playing around with the receiver to find out which "mode" I want for music only vs. HT environment. I really like having the all channel stereo except for the center playing in this config. Anyway.. I'll keep you posted! Thanks for all the help! Chris BTW.. here is the link to my thread of photos now that they're all done!http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=223165

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