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  • Zaph B2031P driver testing.

    John posted response and distortion plots for the drivers used in the Behringer 2031P.

    Tweeter is very clean.

    Woofer has a bit of high frequency trash, but still, pretty nice.

    http://www.zaphaudio.com/blog.html
    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

  • #2
    Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

    You got to love the no **** methods of Zaph's driver testing! Certainly not bad drivers by any stretch.

    What High frequency woofer trash are you seeing Pete? In that department, it looks better than any similar driver I've tested. No right for that kind of money.

    Dan
    "guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
    http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
    http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

      They look good. It will be interesting to see the system response when he gets to it.

      That large B&W midrange he posted looks exceptional.

      Chris
      Chris

      Goofing around since 2000.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

        John posted response and distortion plots for the drivers used in the Behringer 2031P.

        Tweeter is very clean.

        Woofer has a bit of high frequency trash, but still, pretty nice.

        http://www.zaphaudio.com/blog.html
        We've still got a brand new pair of woofers and tweeters to sell if someone is interested. We bought a pair of the 2031A just for the amps, but everything else is still in the boxes.

        Jeff
        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

          Originally posted by dantheman View Post
          You got to love the no **** methods of Zaph's driver testing! Certainly not bad drivers by any stretch.

          What High frequency woofer trash are you seeing Pete? In that department, it looks better than any similar driver I've tested. No right for that kind of money.

          Dan
          Talking about the 3rd and 5th harmonic in the THD plot.

          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

            Originally posted by czag View Post
            They look good. It will be interesting to see the system response when he gets to it.

            That large B&W midrange he posted looks exceptional.

            Chris
            Even better than I expected, especially the distortion. That's the type that so many dismiss because it's woven Kevlar. Can't be good by their arguments, it's not "pistonic". I'd like to see the off-axis response as well. My guess is it's better than most other drivers of equivalent diameter.

            dlr
            WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

            Dave's Speaker Pages

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

              That looks like more than just HF Pete. Still, we know the audibility of that anyway--if anything, slightly appreciated. http://www.gedlee.com/distortion_perception.htm Wonder of that's why they sound so good? (((joke)))

              Dan
              "guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
              http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
              http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

                That 803D midrange has excellent nonlinear distortion in the passband. One of the best true mids I've seen.

                Funny that B&W don't bother to notch out the 3.5khz blip in all their speakers (family resemblance of unnotched mid drivers for all 800d/802d (Stereophile.com measurements) Also i think running a 6" to 4khz is a stretch (as Stereophile's off axis shows). I suspect they need it reach the tweeter, which has only a 1st order HP (Service manual shows crossover circuit with single 4.7uf cap! and series resistor).

                I'd like to see it run from 300Hz to 2KHz. The replacement is under $200, too bad you need proof of purchase...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

                  Originally posted by dantheman View Post
                  That looks like more than just HF Pete. Still, we know the audibility of that anyway--if anything, slightly appreciated. http://www.gedlee.com/distortion_perception.htm Wonder of that's why they sound so good? (((joke)))

                  Dan
                  I always find the dismissal of non-linear distortion, suspect, as a theory. If it really didn't matter, then why do speakers with more linear drivers tend to sound better? And why would Gedlee use high quality woofers instead of a pair of Goldwoods?
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

                    Interesting FR on that woofer, HD is quite low at the bottom and the sensitivity is also nicely high at the bottom/drooping at the top "built in BSC"

                    I don't think we can judge the tweeter until we see how it measure's with the waveguide. I really should get around to opening mine up, I'd love to see if I could make the RS28F tweeter fit.

                    Dan, have you measured the individual drivers in cabinet? I wonder how low the crossover is, and I imagine the RS28F could go lower... (But could the crossover remain as simple?).
                    "...this is not a subwoofer" - Jeff Bagby ;)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

                      Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                      We've still got a brand new pair of woofers and tweeters to sell if someone is interested. We bought a pair of the 2031A just for the amps,
                      I always laugh when you post that . . . the Behringer actives are of course better speakers than their passive "equivalents", yet everyone confines their "raves" to the passive version. You'll probably finally sell them when you duplicate the Behringer passive crossover with "audiophile" components and offer them up as "improved" . . .
                      "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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                      • #12
                        Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

                        I dislike the amount of fifth-order distortion going on there - strikes me as odd, seeing as the motor's so enormous.

                        Still, they're a good speaker (for the price especially)
                        I am trolling you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

                          I always find the dismissal of non-linear distortion, suspect, as a theory. If it really didn't matter, then why do speakers with more linear drivers tend to sound better? And why would Gedlee use high quality woofers instead of a pair of Goldwoods?
                          You've mis-understood his position, that is that drivers are good enough now as long as you use one with good distortion characteristics such as are common today, it's beyond the point of audibility. I tend to agree. Point of diminishing returns.

                          He also is not basing that on theory, he has actually conducted research that, though not conclusive, supports his position.

                          dlr
                          WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

                          Dave's Speaker Pages

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

                            Originally posted by MSaturn View Post
                            I dislike the amount of fifth-order distortion going on there - strikes me as odd,
                            More than 60dB down (that's less than 0.1%) and no "amplification" to speak of (the cone is well damped) . . . it's going to be masked by any music. At some point "driver distortion" becomes just a numbers game that doesn't relate to what we hear . . . I think this is well past that point.
                            "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Zaph B2031P driver testing.

                              I always find the dismissal of non-linear distortion, suspect, as a theory. If it really didn't matter, then why do speakers with more linear drivers tend to sound better? And why would Gedlee use high quality woofers instead of a pair of Goldwoods?
                              You read the papers right? Drivers with higher distortion are preferred by a little in blind studies. Why low distortion drivers are preferred in sighted "studies" is best left to someone more qualified to make the statement. ;) All I'll say is it's not likely non-linear distortion (see studies).

                              For the second: performance and consistency. Dr. Geddes mentioned that cone break-up and thermal capacity weighs heavily on his driver selection. I suspect that would be the place to look. The Summa woofer has exceptional break up performance for a pro woofer. I imagine its thermal capacity and compression is exceptional as well. I think they actually market it as a subwoofer.

                              Dan
                              "guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
                              http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
                              http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10

                              Comment

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