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  • very high end kits/designs?

    Hi,

    I'm wondering if any kits or designs are available that perform close to very high end speakers like B&W 800 series or Paradigm signature series?

    Thanks

  • #2
    Re: very high end kits/designs?

    You won't go wrong with these:
    http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html

    I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
    "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

    High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
    SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
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    • #3
      Re: very high end kits/designs?

      http://www.clearwaveloudspeaker.com/Kits.html

      http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-kits/

      Also, if you message Paul K. he will send you the info on his designs. They are generally very well received at DIY events.

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      • #4
        Re: very high end kits/designs?

        Originally posted by shrimpy1 View Post
        I'm wondering if any kits or designs are available that perform close to very high end speakers like B&W 800 series or Paradigm signature series?
        Sort of "close" . . . but on the significantly better than side . . .

        http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm
        "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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        • #5
          Re: very high end kits/designs?

          I doubt anyone would ever do a direct comparison. How much are the 800 series speakers? Can't get prices online. Have you gone to any dealers?

          It is going to be difficult if not impossible to say for 100% sure that DIY kits are better. I think it is safe to say your money will go a lot farther then B&W and sales commission.

          This is almost a question: If you need to ask, you can't afford it. IMO.

          1-1.2K in DIY speakers should get you really really good speakers.

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          • #6
            Re: very high end kits/designs?

            Originally posted by generic View Post
            I doubt anyone would ever do a direct comparison. How much are the 800 series speakers? Can't get prices online. Have you gone to any dealers?

            It is going to be difficult if not impossible to say for 100% sure that DIY kits are better. I think it is safe to say your money will go a lot farther then B&W and sales commission.

            This is almost a question: If you need to ask, you can't afford it. IMO.

            1-1.2K in DIY speakers should get you really really good speakers.
            Thanks for the realist sentiment. The BW801's go for ~20K and are oft cited as recording studio references, and Paradigm s8's start at ~8K.

            I'm curious:

            1) How much of their prices are actually material and build cost and
            2) To your question, have anyone really compared DIY speakers to those high end "mass" market products.

            I mean, we DIY'ers pride ourselves on cheaper alternatives and pride in build, but could we be fooling ourselves as to how good our home grown projects really are against the large R&D & manufacturing budgets of those big boys? Or maybe some of the DIY designs really are that good? And if it's the latter case, how much does one think the parts cost would be for something comparable to the aforementioned speakers, roughly.

            I'd love to build a high end BW killer, but am afraid that the end result might be more hype than actual performance.

            Glad to hear any and all thoughts, or point me to existing web content. Thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: very high end kits/designs?

              I've never been in the market for 20K speakers, so I can't compare DIY to that. I have demo'd some 2K used Martin Logan speakers once after I got a DIY kit from Madisound for around $520ish, and I must say, I wasn't impressed at all with the Martin Logan speakers and I wouldn't trade for them either.

              Once you get a really good set of speakers, it's harder to get better, or depending on your age of your ears and how picky you are, to actually be able to hear the difference. Let's just assume that 20K B&W speakers are 4 to 8% better then the best DIY speakers. Would you be willing to pay 26-27K more for that improvement?

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              • #8
                Re: very high end kits/designs?

                Originally posted by generic View Post
                I've never been in the market for 20K speakers, so I can't compare DIY to that. I have demo'd some 2K used Martin Logan speakers once after I got a DIY kit from Madisound for around $520ish, and I must say, I wasn't impressed at all with the Martin Logan speakers and I wouldn't trade for them either.

                Once you get a really good set of speakers, it's harder to get better, or depending on your age of your ears and how picky you are, to actually be able to hear the difference. Let's just assume that 20K B&W speakers are 4 to 8% better then the best DIY speakers. Would you be willing to pay 26-27K more for that improvement?
                I'm lost. 16-17K?

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                • #9
                  Re: very high end kits/designs?

                  Originally posted by kmibb View Post
                  I'm lost. 16-17K?
                  I had a brain fart and added 10K and came up with 30K, not 20K. So yes, 16-17K assuming 3-4K DIY speakers, final cost. I'm also leaving a LOT of room to spare. If I wanted huge full range speakers, I'd just do the statements or the Zaph's SB kit at Madisound. The drivers and crossover's for that kit is only a grand. Only....

                  I did want to add, I think one place that B&W and others has a clear advantage is fit and finish and a warranty. While I have seen some pretty amazing looking DIY stuff, most people just don't have those skills. For most people who don't have years of wood working and paint experience, DIY can be kind of plane Jane.

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                  • #10
                    Re: very high end kits/designs?

                    Originally posted by shrimpy1 View Post
                    Hi,

                    I'm wondering if any kits or designs are available that perform close to very high end speakers like B&W 800 series or Paradigm signature series?

                    Thanks
                    http://www.musicanddesign.com/naomain.html
                    John k.... Music and Design NaO dsp Dipole Loudspeakers.

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                    • #11
                      Re: very high end kits/designs?

                      Having heard flagships from B&W, Sonus Faber, Revel, etc...you're paying for the name, hype, and parts when it comes to B&W, it's not difficult to do better due to their poor choices in crossover design.

                      I'd check out Clearwave and Selah Audio. I don't believe Clearwave's "high end" speakers are available in kit form though, but you can give the owner(Jed) a call to confirm that.
                      "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

                      http://www.diy-ny.com/

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                      • #12
                        Re: very high end kits/designs?

                        While considering alternatives, I wouldn't overlook Salk Sound (www.salksound.com). Not kit, but I suspect excellent sound for much less than the previously mentioned B&W / Paradigm.
                        I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.
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                        LECBOS. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ghlight=lecbos

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                        • #13
                          Re: very high end kits/designs?

                          Originally posted by fastbike1 View Post
                          While considering alternatives, I wouldn't overlook Salk Sound (www.salksound.com). Not kit, but I suspect excellent sound for much less than the previously mentioned B&W / Paradigm.
                          Absolute Sound's Steve Stone picked the Salk Sounscape 12's as "Best sound at show - cost no object" at the RMAF. And that was up against some pretty big names. If Jim, Dennis, and I can design a speaker that does that, then many DIYers can achieve it too if they focus on the details of a smart design. However, if you also want Jim's incredible craftsmanship, then give him a call.
                          Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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                          • #14
                            Re: very high end kits/designs?

                            Originally posted by shrimpy1 View Post
                            I'm curious:

                            1) How much of their prices are actually material and build cost and
                            2) To your question, have anyone really compared DIY speakers to those high end "mass" market products.

                            I mean, we DIY'ers pride ourselves on cheaper alternatives and pride in build, but could we be fooling ourselves as to how good our home grown projects really are against the large R&D & manufacturing budgets of those big boys? Or maybe some of the DIY designs really are that good? And if it's the latter case, how much does one think the parts cost would be for something comparable to the aforementioned speakers, roughly.

                            I'd love to build a high end BW killer, but am afraid that the end result might be more hype than actual performance.

                            Glad to hear any and all thoughts, or point me to existing web content. Thanks!
                            Curt's Speaker Design Works

                            "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
                            - Aristotle

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: very high end kits/designs?

                              Thee have been some very good recommendations here. If you think B&W 800 series or Paradigm anything are very high end, then you will just explode hearing some of the DIY kits/builds/recommendations above can offer.
                              .

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