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  • More price increase kvetching

    I just looked at the Peerless 830970 2" widebander, and it's up to $35!

    So much for idle thoughts of doing a "bookshelf done right" with the 830970 and an SLS10!

    Even at a similar price, it doesn't IMO do anything better than the Aura Whisper, and the Aura does some things better (like get lower and a bit louder). So pricing it considerably higher than the Aura would seem to be a kiss of death to me.

    At its price, even the KEF Ci50's start to look reasonable, when one considers they come with a flange for in-wall mounting. The Ci50 can go toe-to-toe with the Whisper in most aspects (not as good down low, better up high) except that the adhesives don't hold up well in roadster doors in the SE USA.
    --
    "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

  • #2
    Re: More price increase kvetching

    Remember, the main driver of the price increase is a mid-year reduction in the quota for mining of Neodymium by the Chinese government, causing price increases everywhere Neodymium is used. Things could be completely different next year, if the Chinese government gets their heads on straight and realizes that reducing the quota wasn't a good idea, and we could be back to using Neodymium drivers.
    Best Regards,

    Rory Buszka

    Taterworks Audio

    "The work of the individual still remains the spark which moves mankind ahead, even more than teamwork." - Igor I. Sikorsky

    If it works, but you don't know why it works, then you haven't done any engineering.

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    • #3
      Re: More price increase kvetching

      Originally posted by Pallas View Post
      Even at a similar price, it doesn't IMO do anything better than the Aura Whisper, and the Aura does some things better
      It's really hard to beat the NSW2 . . . probably should lay in a stock of them before their price goes up too . . .

      With standard of living rising in China, Korea, Taiwan and yes, even Indonesia I suspect that we can expect a lot more price "normalization" (as the slave labor producers have to start paying the help). And I'm not seeing where we have any justification to complain about it. We don't own the world any more, we OWE the world now . . . too many years of living beyond our means . . .
      "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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      • #4
        Re: More price increase kvetching

        ^^ Makes sense to me.
        Best Regards,

        Rory Buszka

        Taterworks Audio

        "The work of the individual still remains the spark which moves mankind ahead, even more than teamwork." - Igor I. Sikorsky

        If it works, but you don't know why it works, then you haven't done any engineering.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: More price increase kvetching

          Take heart fellow speaker builders.

          There are US rare earth element mines opening or about to open all across the western states. I was in Sundance, Wyoming this summer where one is slated to open within a year. Later in my travels, I was fortunate enough to visit RE mines in both Colorado and Utah.

          As more NA mines come on line China's monopoly on RE supply will be lessened.
          If life were fair, Elvis would still be alive today and all the impersonators would be dead.
          ~ Johnny Carson

          Bungelow Ed's Photo Album http://techtalk.parts-express.com/album.php?u=8594

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          • #6
            Re: More price increase kvetching

            Originally posted by bungelow_ed View Post
            As more NA mines come on line China's monopoly on RE supply will be lessened.
            It doesn't matter . . . demand is rising faster than supply, and new mines cost big money (only justified if prices stay high). It's a demand market, and China has tested, and demonstrated, what the marginal buyers are willing to pay. If it prices Rare Earths out of all but the premium speaker market they don't care . . . it's other, higher volume, buyers who set the price anyway. Speaker builders have about as much impact on the RE market as dentists have on the Gold market . . . we suffer the price, we don't set it . . .
            "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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            • #7
              Re: More price increase kvetching

              The real question is when the price comes down will the manufacturers and PE drop their prices accordingly; or just enjoy bigger profits?

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              • #8
                Re: More price increase kvetching

                Originally posted by bungelow_ed View Post
                Take heart fellow speaker builders.

                There are US rare earth element mines opening or about to open all across the western states. I was in Sundance, Wyoming this summer where one is slated to open within a year. Later in my travels, I was fortunate enough to visit RE mines in both Colorado and Utah.

                As more NA mines come on line China's monopoly on RE supply will be lessened.
                I helped an investment bank do some due diligence on a couple new mines in anticipation of a sponsorship investment. The costs of environmental compliance are so high that the ore is projected to be priced at current market rates or higher. Don't expect the new supply to lower costs to the consumer.

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                • #9
                  Re: More price increase kvetching

                  Originally posted by dwigle View Post
                  I helped an investment bank do some due diligence on a couple new mines in anticipation of a sponsorship investment. The costs of environmental compliance are so high that the ore is projected to be priced at current market rates or higher. Don't expect the new supply to lower costs to the consumer.
                  Gotta love the EPA . . .
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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                  • #10
                    Re: More price increase kvetching

                    Gotta love the EPA . . .
                    Indeed we do . . . without it much of the US would be an industrial garbage dump, and air polution would be as bad as is now found in some larger cities in China, India and Mexico. Clean air, clean water and a clean environment are generally desirable ends that cannot be accomplished without collective (government) intervention . . . and frankly I think we need more of it, not less. It is a preferable alternative to brown air and poisoned rivers . . .
                    "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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                    • #11
                      Re: More price increase kvetching

                      Originally posted by Deward Hastings View Post
                      Indeed we do . . . without it much of the US would be an industrial garbage dump, and air polution would be as bad as is now found in some larger cities in China, India and Mexico. Clean air, clean water and a clean environment are generally desirable ends that cannot be accomplished without collective (government) intervention . . . and frankly I think we need more of it, not less. It is a preferable alternative to brown air and poisoned rivers . . .
                      There needs to be balance. What is the point of a mining industry that can't compete due to regulation? Ah, more union govt jobs!

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                      • #12
                        Re: More price increase kvetching

                        I agree... if you look at what's happening in China, it's scary. They have kids dying/injured from industrial chemicals like mercury everyday. Plus, a lot of their food is contaminated or not safe. I don't like government regulations, but what can you do? It might be your child or someone you know dying or getting injured. It's also very difficult to sue companies, especially large ones.

                        People that want to get rid of the EPA first needs to tell us how they're going to handle issues like children getting sick from environmental pollution, unsafe food, ..etc And, I don't want to hear "God will do it."

                        Mining is inherently very dangerous to the environment, ground water pollution being the biggest issue. If we can't complete because another country is destroying themselves in order to complete on price...then, oh well. China's recent actions on limiting rare earth export is impart because they want to stop the kind of environmentally damaging mining that's been going on.

                        we should be putting more effort into finding a replacement for rare earth magnets.

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                        • #13
                          Re: More price increase kvetching

                          Originally posted by Deward Hastings View Post
                          Indeed we do . . . without it much of the US would be an industrial garbage dump, and air polution would be as bad as is now found in some larger cities in China, India and Mexico. Clean air, clean water and a clean environment are generally desirable ends that cannot be accomplished without collective (government) intervention . . . and frankly I think we need more of it, not less. It is a preferable alternative to brown air and poisoned rivers . . .
                          +1!! I found a new appreciation for the EPA back in the 90s while investigating some local companies that were dumping chemicals into our river and small lakes. The water had a chromium sheen and the fish were dying. I would never eat the fish out of that water, even today - and I sure don't want my kids attending a school that was built on a former LUST site.
                          Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

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                          • #14
                            Re: More price increase kvetching

                            The EPA is a valuable and underfunded government agency.

                            Years ago there was a resins plant about a half mile from our house and on ocassion we would be awakened at night by an extremely strong noxious smell. A few calls led us to our local Ohio EPA inspector who explained to us that he had been trying to get that plant to clean up it's act for a while, but since budget cuts had reduced his availability he wasn't having much luck. It appears that instead of shipping their waste products for proper disposal the company, or it's contractor, had instead been dumping the waste into a creek that ran right by the houses of hundreds of people who got their drinking water from wells. Unfortunately it took a while to get this addressed, because the EPA only had one part time inspector for all of NE Ohio (i.e., Cleveland, Akron, Elyria, etc.). Eventually the plant was closed and became a super fund site, costing US taxpayer tens of millions of dollars.

                            Do we really want to entrust our environment and well being to corporate leaders? I think it would be much cheaper in the long run to employ a few additional inspectors to make sure it's done right the first time, but most Americans only have to be fed the simple line of "government regulations", and all of the sudden it's the most evil thing on the face of the Earth.

                            Just because they choose to harm and kill their people in other countries, doesn't mean that we should as well.

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                            • #15
                              Re: More price increase kvetching

                              I really don't like to discuss politics or any of the "hot button" issues of the day on religion, gun control, taxes, etc., but I agree with everyone who posted in this thread in favor of the EPA. I'll be 71 this year and hope my yet unborn great-grand kids will still be able to breathe clean air, drink clean water and eat safe food.
                              Paul

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