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Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

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  • Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

    Just as the title states , I'm giving some serious consideration to build Jim Holtz's Statements , the full sized ones. I have been researching and modeling a lot of various design ideas over the past couple of months in preparation to build a new set of main towers for my living room. I came up with a few designs I liked , and got them to work fairly well in PCD , and my favorite ones seemed to be RS_225 based designs. So I got to looking at proven designs based on that woofer and came across the Statements , the Khanspires , and a couple of others , but the statements really stood out . While I have no doubt I could build a decent speaker of my own , I have yet to read a single listening impression of the Statements that wasn't just positively glowing . Looking over the design page it looks like they would work out great for me , good dynamics , excellent bass extension and detail , they do pretty much everything I need ind a pair of mains except one thing , placement.

    My living room, is my listening room , and my home theater , and the furniture placement is pretty much set in stone. The front baffle of my mains can be 30" from the back wall before they start to protrude in to walking area. If the statements are 16.5" deep this leaves me with about 12 or 13 inches behind them , MAXIMUM , could wind up even being a little less for aesthetics and definitely can't do the recommended 18 inches behind them.

    So this leaves me with some questions

    Should I scratch the idea of the Statements and build something else because I don't have the recommended clearance behind them?

    Is there anything else out there in the same price range that compares to the Statements without the open back midranges?

    If I built the Statements could I adjust the amount of stuffing in the midrange transmission line to allow slightly closer placement to the wall?

    As always I appreciate any info and suggestion you guys have for me , thanks in advance.

    Mike Price

  • #2
    Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

    Jed K's Dynamic 2T and 4T are very similar, and come in an RS version if you're looking to save some money. I've seen several people build these, even Statement owners, and be happy. He sells them in Driver + assembled crossover kits.

    LINK: http://www.clearwaveloudspeaker.com/kits.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

      I have looked at those , and I like them , but the kit is a lot more than a Statement , believe it or not. I came up with a BOM of around $900 for the Statements(drivers and crossover) , and the Dynamic 4t kit (the one with the same tangband mids) is $1360 , so it's about $450 more.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

        The premise of the open-backed mids actually keeps the speaker as designed with a flat acoustic response. If you place them too close to a boundary, or stuff them further than optimal, you'll make your flat reponse into a smiley-faced response.

        I would not recommend it if you can't give the design what it entails.

        Later,
        Wolf
        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

        *InDIYana event website*

        Photobucket pages:
        http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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        • #5
          Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

          Have you considered the Mini-Statements? They can meet your space requirements and be pretty close to design spacing to the wall. I have not heard them myself, but it doesn't seem like you would be giving up a lot of sound quality.
          I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.
          OS MTMs http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=220388
          Swope TM http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=221818
          Econowave and Audio Nirvana AN10 fullrange http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=216841
          Imperial Russian Stouts http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=1#post1840444
          LECBOS. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ghlight=lecbos

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          • #6
            Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

            The minis are about 12 inches deep, so they may fit your living room.
            You give up a bit of bass and "authority", but they sound great.
            The Khans are well received, but will need a subwoofer if I remember
            correctly.
            A similar design that may work for you is the Sunflowers:
            https://sites.google.com/site/undefi...diy-sunflowers
            The designer is one of the best.

            I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
            "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

            High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
            SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
            My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

            Tangband W6-sub

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

              I'm "upgrading" from a dual RS180 design , dual RS225's are about the minimum for me as far as woofer displacement. I had given strong consideration to a quad RS180 setup such as the Dynamic 4t's , but the Rs225's dig 10hz deeper. I actually also considered a home brewed design with quad 225's but the box size starts getting fairly large. All the great things I've read about the statements , I was really hoping there was a way to make them work a foot or so off the wall.....

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

                I went with the Statement monitors sitting on sealed 12" subs.

                I like the flexibility of this setup. I am actively crossing over to the subs at 60Hz.

                The subs make great stands

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

                  I read in the Statements thread over at HTGuide that they were designed with an 18-24" distance from the wall in mind , but that more would likely be better. What exactly happens to the sound , as they move closer and further from the rear wall? Looking more closely , I could probably push them as far as 15" out from the wall. I just don't quite have a grasp here on what changes are going to take place at different distances from the rear wall.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

                    All of the Statements series speakers (except for the near wall Monitors) are designed to be 18" from the rear wall. There is flexibility. If you get them too close to the rear wall, the soundstage will flatten somewhat. If they're waaaay out from the wall (think Grinnell soundstage Wolf) , the reflected rear wave doesn't integrate as well with the front wave and they lack the full bodied Di-pole mid range sound they were designed to have.

                    So, if you can get them anywhere from 12" to 36" out from the wall behind I think they'll sound fine. Another thing to consider is, don't have large objects tucked next to and between the speakers. They need at least 7' between them and room around the speakers to breath.

                    Honestly, ALL speakers need what I just described to sound their best so it not an unusual requirement.

                    Does that work?

                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

                      That does work! Where my entertainment wall is , I have plenty of room for them to breathe. The speakers will sit 9 feet apart , with 4 feet to either side wall on a 17 foot wall. The 12" from the rear wall being acceptable is the thing I needed to hear , the way my room is set up , the difference between 12 and 18 inches off the back wall means the difference between the speakers being out of the way and not likely to be bumped in to , and the speakers jutting 6 inches out into a walkway. 6 inches difference may sound like splitting hairs but it's a huge difference in placement to me. Thank you for taking the time to respond Jim , it's rare to see a design so widely praised that also meets all my requirements , as the Statements. I'll likely be building a pair starting in the very near future.
                      Last edited by mike price; 11-02-2011, 10:18 PM. Reason: Spelling

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

                        I did a lot of the same research you did. I wanted a speaker with low end tactility, midrange presence, smooth top end with killer imaging and sound stage presentation.

                        I have that in spades with the Statements. Mine are 20" from the back wall, 26" from the sides, slight toe in. Played with minor placement tweaks for 3 days and with the above the sound stage was wide, deep, immersive. I could get a little more woofer to room coupling if I placed them back to the original 12 from the side and 18 from the back wall but the sound stage simply collapsed and you lost the generous sweet spot.

                        You have to have room and if you have it you are going to love it.

                        Driving mine with a close out Crown XLS 402D and couldn't be happier.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

                          I'm pretty certain now that I'll be building Statements as my next project , so I have a few more questions.

                          How do you go about veneering cabinets of this size?

                          Do they sell sheets of paper backed veneer big enough to wrap around and only have a seam in the back , or big enough to cover just the front and sides and maybe paint the back?

                          Where is a good place to source the veneer? I'm not looking for anything exotic , but decent enough quality to end with a decent finish , at a reasonable price.

                          I have seen several completed tower projects with curved sides , I understand this is usually done with a skeletal system and either kerf MDF , or multiple layers of something thinner and more flexible. I have not however seen documented what the process is of trimming it clean on the front and back afterwards. It seems that a router with a flush trim bit wouldn't work because of the curved sides. Is there any place I can find more information on this?

                          These are all the questions I have for now , but as always the further I get along in the planning process , the more I have , Thank you all in advance.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

                            Originally posted by mike price View Post
                            I'm pretty certain now that I'll be building Statements as my next project , so I have a few more questions.

                            How do you go about veneering cabinets of this size?

                            Do they sell sheets of paper backed veneer big enough to wrap around and only have a seam in the back , or big enough to cover just the front and sides and maybe paint the back?

                            Where is a good place to source the veneer? I'm not looking for anything exotic , but decent enough quality to end with a decent finish , at a reasonable price.

                            I have seen several completed tower projects with curved sides , I understand this is usually done with a skeletal system and either kerf MDF , or multiple layers of something thinner and more flexible. I have not however seen documented what the process is of trimming it clean on the front and back afterwards. It seems that a router with a flush trim bit wouldn't work because of the curved sides. Is there any place I can find more information on this?

                            These are all the questions I have for now , but as always the further I get along in the planning process , the more I have , Thank you all in advance.
                            To answer your questions:

                            Yes, you can buy 4x8 (or even larger) sheets of paper backed veneer. You can wrap around eased edges or keep the corners sharp and have a seam at the corner. I have bought veneer sheets at veneersupplies.com with great success.

                            I have built curved sides with a 6' radius using three layers of 1/4" mdf. Just clamp one layer at a time over night and it holds fine. The 90 degree edges trim fine with a flush trim bit of course, but the odd angled edges take a bit more effort. Some people have built wedges to use with the router which seems to work. For example, if you have a 82 degree angle at an edge you would make an 8 degree wedge to bring the router to an effective 90 degrees. When I build them I either precut the sheet close enough so that there is only a little overhanging, or I use my table saw to trim the edges close to flush. I never tried to get it perfect though and always let it slightly overhange (1/16-1/8"). Then I finish flushing it out with an orbital sander. Takes a bit of time but it seems to work the best for me. I have also used a sanding plank before which helps ensure that I don't round off the edges. To make a sanding plank take a piece of mdf wide enough to cover the entire width of you speaker and glue or staple 60 grit sand paper to it. Then use it to sand down the excess overhanging mdf. There are other ways to do it as well, but I find I get the best results by sanding the overhang.

                            There are threads with curved cabinet builds, either here or on HT Guide. Some don't show much of the process, but others so a great job of documenting it. I'll look for one when I have time and make a link for you.

                            Matt

                            Matt

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                            • #15
                              Re: Contemplating The Statements , Have a Few Questions

                              Originally posted by mike price View Post
                              I have looked at those , and I like them , but the kit is a lot more than a Statement , believe it or not. I came up with a BOM of around $900 for the Statements(drivers and crossover) , and the Dynamic 4t kit (the one with the same tangband mids) is $1360 , so it's about $450 more.
                              $1360 is for all the parts including sonic barrier, precision ports, acousta stuff, foam, binding post, wire, quick connects, screws. It adds up fast.

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