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  • Monitor recommendations and experience please...


    I have researched monitirs for some time time now, and ave narrowed my search to the following:

    Microbe, Hiddenite, Modula MT, Cryolite, and NatalieP. I have also thought about a Hiquphon/HDS Exclusive pairing, though I don't know of a crossover design for this yet. Jon at HT Guide has also been threatening with a Modulat MT with the HDS, but he's a bus guy. I will be buiding one set with my son for his room and it will mneed to be slightly smaller. I will be buiding one or possibly two pair for my office/studio, where it might be nice to contrast different approaches.

    I want to wind up with some really special speakers. Before I finalize plans, and pull the trigger on some orders, I wanted to get feedback on these choices, relative to each other from those who may have heard several of these at the DIY meets, etc., since these will probably be the last speakers I will ever build. (yeah right.) For a while anyway.

    Any thoughts or other recommendations welcome.



  • #2
    Re: Monitor recommendations and experience please.


    > I have researched monitirs for some time
    > time now, and ave narrowed my search to the
    > following:

    > Microbe, Hiddenite, Modula MT, Cryolite, and
    > NatalieP. I have also thought about a
    > Hiquphon/HDS Exclusive pairing, though I
    > don't know of a crossover design for this
    > yet. Jon at HT Guide has also been
    > threatening with a Modulat MT with the HDS,
    > but he's a bus guy. I will be buiding one
    > set with my son for his room and it will
    > mneed to be slightly smaller. I will be
    > buiding one or possibly two pair for my
    > office/studio, where it might be nice to
    > contrast different approaches.

    > I want to wind up with some really special
    > speakers. Before I finalize plans, and pull
    > the trigger on some orders, I wanted to get
    > feedback on these choices, relative to each
    > other from those who may have heard several
    > of these at the DIY meets, etc., since these
    > will probably be the last speakers I will
    > ever build. (yeah right.) For a while
    > anyway.

    > Any thoughts or other recommendations
    > welcome.

    I'll comment on the Microbes and my thoughts regarding drivers.

    Of the Microbe versions I've built and heard the original Microbe and Microbe SE (Seas 22TAF/G tweeter) and the SE is closer to a "monitor" because it has a more neutral sound but can be a bit more fatiguing than the original Microbe which has a bit of a BBC dip.

    I've received comments from a lot of people who have built RS180 based designs that feel they can be a bit too analytical and can be a bit fatiguing if the recording is less than perfect (in my opinion due to the metal cone).

    Of my designs, if I could only have one speaker I would go with the Asterion because it sounds great with just about any music, doesn't really need a subwoofer for music and has very few weaknesses in my opinion (and many others' opinions). Someone just told me that the old owner of Audio Physic started a new company and is selling a speaker based on the Vifa XT18 and a Seas 22mm tweeter that sells for $5200. You can build the Asterion which uses the XT18 and OW1 tweeter for under $600 I believe. Compared to a lot of the metal cone based designs I've heard the Asterion has more depth to the soundstage and a smoother sound overall but is still very detailed. However, it may be a bit big for your application but you don't get an f3 below 40 Hz and a sensitivity of 85dB without some compromises.

    Could you elaborate on what type of sound you are looking for and what type of music you listen to? This can help make your decision easier.
    RJB Audio Projects
    http://www.rjbaudio.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Monitor recommendations and experience please.


      I have the Modula MT and as Roman said it is pretty brutal on poorly recorded music. One of the first cd's I played was Layla by Eric Clapton, I love the guitar. However, this recording is poor and the song was unlistenable. The bulk of the music I listen to is very good and I do like the speakers for the price.
      DP

      Comment


      • #4
        Man, I type terribly, but anyway...


        Thanks for your comments, Roman as I respect your site and opinion. Actually I like all music, or any music done well at least. Which is why I got spoiled for studio monitors in college when I worked at various studios as an intern. Studio monitors I found to be as good as the recording, and added noting to or took nothing away. I am actually considering building two sets of monitors for my studio/office. They will be used for a variety of music and monitoring needs. I thought that it might be interesting to contrast speakers of differening philosophies such as the metal Dayton based monitors vs. something like the Hiquphon/XT18 speakers... So these would be your favorite all round speakers?
        How come you never see the typo's until you press the ost button ;) ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Monitor recommendations and experience please.


          > I have the Modula MT and as Roman said it is
          > pretty brutal on poorly recorded music. One
          > of the first cd's I played was Layla by Eric
          > Clapton, I love the guitar. However, this
          > recording is poor and the song was
          > unlistenable. The bulk of the music I listen
          > to is very good and I do like the speakers
          > for the price.

          Thanks for the frank opinion. I've had similar experience on my cars system with metal tweeters (Diamond audio Hex) before I went to DynAudio's. I bought a Faith Hill CD after hearinging her up close and personal singing live in Nashville at a Tennessee Christmas event. I couldn't believe how good a vocalist she really was. Bought a CD and found it unlistenable due to the engineering on the CD. No wonder her vocals are a best kepr secret.

          BTW, which crossover components did you use for the Modula's, Jon's or some of the other recommendations?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Monitor recommendations and experience please.


            I have built a few high end studio monitors
            for some big name engineers. Looking at your
            post I would love to help you out- allthough
            I have never heard good studio monitors with
            metal domes? and you said you like the sound of
            dynaudio loudspeakers but none of them use
            metal domes or the high-slopes that go with
            metal woofer cones? I have nothing against
            metal drivers. but in the studio they can get fatiqing eventhough they may sound great.
            I quess it would help to know what studio
            monitors you enjoy or better yet have helped
            you make great records! it seems to me you
            are looking for the magic between metal
            and silk. perhaps a good ribon, I have not
            yet used any of the aurum-cantus drivers
            has anyone out there used them? let us know!
            I have used BG plannars and adams studio monitors
            with good results but I think we owe our-
            selfs a good listen to the aurum cantus line!!!
            pe needs to sponser a demo HEHEHEHE!!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              I have the Modula MT - SEAS/RS180 version


              and also built the Modula MT all RS version for my neighbor - add to that the fact that I built the surface version of the Cryolite.

              Out of those three - I like the Modula SEAS 27TDFC/RS180 2-way the best. It's an extremely good 2-way - especially for the money.

              If anything - I probably also lean away from metal drivers a bit (like Roman) - - but I personally do not detect any harshness at all on the Modula - and I have quite a few crappy recordings from the last 30 + years. The modula is very smooth and very revealing.

              IMO - once you get into this quality of design -like the Modula - like Zaph's SEAS metal 2-way - like Roman's Asterion - the speaker is getting pretty close to "truth" - and as a result - they all start sounding very close. The differences are much more subtle - like depth of soundstage.

              Wish I could hear them all - side by side.

              > I have researched monitirs for some time
              > time now, and ave narrowed my search to the
              > following:

              > Microbe, Hiddenite, Modula MT, Cryolite, and
              > NatalieP. I have also thought about a
              > Hiquphon/HDS Exclusive pairing, though I
              > don't know of a crossover design for this
              > yet. Jon at HT Guide has also been
              > threatening with a Modulat MT with the HDS,
              > but he's a bus guy. I will be buiding one
              > set with my son for his room and it will
              > mneed to be slightly smaller. I will be
              > buiding one or possibly two pair for my
              > office/studio, where it might be nice to
              > contrast different approaches.

              > I want to wind up with some really special
              > speakers. Before I finalize plans, and pull
              > the trigger on some orders, I wanted to get
              > feedback on these choices, relative to each
              > other from those who may have heard several
              > of these at the DIY meets, etc., since these
              > will probably be the last speakers I will
              > ever build. (yeah right.) For a while
              > anyway.

              > Any thoughts or other recommendations
              > welcome.

              Comment


              • #8
                http://speakerbuilder.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Monitor recommendations and experience please.


                  Mine is the Jon Marsh crossover. With the dayton tweet.
                  DP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This's A Example of Why This Site is Great


                    Roman's informed, consise and well written, response is exactly why this site is the very best audio related board in the world, IMHO.

                    Additionally, Roman's comments reveal him to be a sensitive listener, rather than just an SPL thumper, and not only lend credibility to his conclusions, but enlarge our knowledge of the topic.

                    Comment


                    • #11

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                      • #12
                        "Brutal" Speakers - A Capsule Audio History


                        > I have the Modula MT and as Roman said it is
                        > pretty brutal on poorly recorded music.

                        I've been around audio for a long time. Believe it or not, this exact type of experience goes back as the very beginning of audio.

                        In the acoustic era, the divide was between those who preferred wood-based "needles", who's 'tone' was more natural, but less detailed, and metal needles, which superior detail, but were much harsher.

                        In the 70s there was quite a massive sectarian conflict between (which threatened to actually erupt into violence at times) between the adherants of the "polite" east-coast sound, exemplified by AR and a legion of imitators (nearly every extant manufacturer at the time, from KLH to Fisher to Scott to Sylvania [!]), and the so-called west-coast sound, who's single standard bearer was JBL.

                        While some version, or flavor if you will, of the AR sound predominated the audio scene in the 60s. JBL broke rank when it released a commercial version of it's 4311 "studio monitor": the model L-100 Century.

                        The sound of L-100 couldn't have been more different from AR - or anything else. Big, punchy midrange. Detail, detail, detail. However, sensitive listerners noted that sheer harshness abounded like crazy. The mid-bass was bumped up and unnatural (though impressive for rockers), the extreme top end was missing. The midrange was relentless and overbearing.

                        The most fascinating aspect to this was the foundation of modern highend, which was burgeoning in the margins in the very late 60s - early 70s. Rectilinear strode a middle course which led straight to true highend and lay just around the corner. It's staff read like a veritable who's who of accomplished high end engineers: James Bongiorno, Jon Dahlquist, etc.

                        While mid-fi effectively died in the 80s, being replaced by an increasingly video dominated industry, the high end blossomed, and, until the mid-90s, offered truly refined speakers. The dichotomy between pizzazzy detail and refined purity and trueness of sound seems to've been over.

                        But, not completely. Theil, while offering a refinement of sound that crude blasters like JBL could only dream of (actually, they didn't dream of anything except profits and market share, eventually selling themselves to Harmon International), nevertheless carried forward the banner of detail above all.

                        And, they've proved to be victorious. These days, an overwhelming majority of highend speakers feature excessive treble balance; a hot highend the ranges from merely relentless (recapitulating the old JBL sound) to super-nova white hot.

                        IMHO, any speaker that sounds "brutal", to any extent at all, with so-called poorly recorded material, is automatically a reject. I suspect that so-called poor recordings are merely potentiating and provoling existing design flaws; probably high amounts of non-linear distortion.

                        Having heard "poor" recordings on truly good speakers, I can tell you that, while you can hear the poor quality of the recording, it is by no means the ear-burning, jackhammer to your ears affair that occurs with typical speakers. Indeed, the distorsion is comparatvely benign sounding.


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          JH3?? What Is It? Where Is It?


                          >
                          > The JH3 Reference easily best them sound
                          > quality wise but for more money.

                          Inquiring minds (and no-minds) want to know.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: JH3?? What Is It? Where Is It?


                            > Inquiring minds (and no-minds) want to know.

                            <A HREF="http://www.SelahAudio.Com">www.SelahAudio.Com</A> [ I think !! ] DVW

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: JH3?? What Is It? Where Is It?


                              > <A HREF="http://www.SelahAudio.Com">www.SelahAudio.Com</A> [ I think !! ] DVW
                              <A HREF="http://www.audiodiycentral.com/sd300_jh3.shtml">http://www.audiodiycentral.com/sd300_jh3.shtml</A>

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