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If this were your room, what would you build ???

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  • If this were your room, what would you build ???

    Time for a build for my new condo loft (which serves as manroom, home office, listening room, HT room).

    The room:
    10' x 14'. Quite open acoustically with several large openings and tall vaulted ceiling (unfortunately the room and layout are quite asymmetric), measured bass ringing relatively low (<200-250ms). This is a condo with one neighboring common wall (no one above or below). Pics attached.

    The target:
    1) LCR speakers (final solution having three or four LF sources for modal smoothing). Driver/crossover budget ~$1K usd or less (I have amps, EQ, tools, etc already).
    2) No ultra loud earth shaking subs allowed, want some "impact" but also need to keep peace with my very cool neighbors.
    3) Usage is 4+ hours per workday day low volume background music (mostly 128k/192k internet streaming). More serious listening is FLAC rips off CD at ~70dB. HT use is one or two movies on weekends, also not at loud average volumes but want enough headroom/dynamics to prevent constantly reaching for the remote volume.
    4) I am not a "total" basshead for either music or HT, prefer clean dry extended bass (nothing boomy or bloated). Not an "audiophile" either, just like it clean and fun, upper mid-fi is fine. Low listener fatigue design preferable, compatible with a wide variety of source material.
    5) WAF not a factor this is my room :D. However the OB's pictured really do get in the way of moving around sometimes!


    Solutions I am pondering (here's where your ideas and experience are needed please):
    1) Go with larger high SPL capable full rangers such as the RS TMWW and matching center (http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=15323), probably sealed reaching down to upper 20's with room gain, no subs, use bass shakers to handle lower/LFE.
    2) Go with lower SPL capable full rangers such as Paul C TMWW Swopes and matching center, combined with a few small subs to handle the lows such as Cerebrus (really worry about any subs with neighbors though).
    3) Go with 7" two ways (Zaph SR71 w/lunchmoney Blackbird, three Paul C sealed Amiga's, etc), with a few small subs (maybe used as bass bins in this application). Could go over budget with the SR71 but a possibility.
    4) Also like the looks of Paul C OSMTM floorstander builds, could be combined with the matching WWTMWW center (EDIT: correction MMTMM center) and small subs.
    5) Maybe other MTM's (I've only owned/heard TM's and my own OB's before)?

    I've never heard any of the above designs, nor had a room quite like this. If this was your room, what would you likely build? Your input appreciated (special thanks to Paul C for my many questions on his designs, just posting here before making the final decision and ordering drivers)!
    Attached Files
    Last edited by rvsixer; 01-18-2012, 02:38 PM.

  • #2
    Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

    If I were having to make that decision I would be strongly tempted to go with option #4 with one change. Consider a third OS MTM for center channel duty.

    Given the size of your room the OS MTM's will have no trouble exceeding your SPL requirements and are very attractive from a cost perspective. One or more Cerebus, Pony or Triska subs can fill in the low end. It's how you use the sub/s that determine how much impact they have on your neighbors.

    Looking forward to following this thread, your decision and hopefully a build.
    If life were fair, Elvis would still be alive today and all the impersonators would be dead.
    ~ Johnny Carson

    Bungelow Ed's Photo Album http://techtalk.parts-express.com/album.php?u=8594

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

      Originally posted by bungelow_ed View Post
      If I were having to make that decision I would be strongly tempted to go with option #4 with one change. Consider a third OS MTM for center channel duty.
      Great feedback, thanks. So first I have to correct myself on the OS center, its a MMTMM 2.5 way (not an WWTMWW as I incorrectly posted). Second, is there a particular reason to substitute the MTM for the MMTMM center?

      I grew up with big honkin' Altecs in the home, so have a bias towards larger speakers. I've not had the opportunity to experience a good small speaker/satellite with subwoofer setup before (only the crap at best buy etc), so am hesitant but open to trying something like the OS's. Just so much good posted about them.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

        Given your preferences, I'd build Paul Carmody's "Core 2" small towers, and build a Swope or OS MTM for the center. I really dig the Dayton RS drivers for "authority" and detail.
        http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/core-2-way

        I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
        "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

        High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
        SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
        My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

        Tangband W6-sub

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

          Let's examine your space first and clear up a thing or two. Primarily MTMs when implemented help with vertical response and a smoothing of floor and ceiling bounce. Given your irregular vaulted ceiling, I see little to no advantage of an MTM, MMTMM or any similiar variation. A bookshelf or tower MT works well with low bass being redirected to a subwoofer whose driver is close to the floor.

          On that note, there's lots of designs that would meet your needs. I can see you're a bit strapped for space so a somewhat narrow bookshelf or 'Totemesque' floor stander should work nicely. I'd also consider Paul C's Sunflowers or a floor standing version of the Speedster, maybe customized with some side firing subwoofers of the sealed variety. Nothing too big. Don't know what's in your existing OB's for woofers but maybe you could repurpose those?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

            Originally posted by rvsixer View Post
            Great feedback, thanks. So first I have to correct myself on the OS center, its a MMTMM 2.5 way (not an WWTMWW as I incorrectly posted). Second, is there a particular reason to substitute the MTM for the MMTMM center?

            I grew up with big honkin' Altecs in the home, so have a bias towards larger speakers. I've not had the opportunity to experience a good small speaker/satellite with subwoofer setup before (only the crap at best buy etc), so am hesitant but open to trying something like the OS's. Just so much good posted about them.
            I am not familiar with an MMTMM OS so can't speak to the design. I just finished building an OS MTM front-end which I use for HT in a 25' x 21' room that opens into the rest of the house on two sides. Dialog is clear and clean with more than enough SPL to satisfy even my pre-teen boys. Bottom-line, MTM or MMTMM is more about your taste.

            I too grew up with Altec Lansing's. A pair of acoustic suspension 2-ways were my first new speaker purchase. Walnut veneer, black foam fronts and as I recall better performance than my friends 901's.

            Until I started building smaller 2-ways my bias had been toward 3-way and larger speakers. Given your room size and listening taste there are many options that won't overpower the room while providing the performance you are after. OS MTMs in a tower are a nice pair of speakers.
            If life were fair, Elvis would still be alive today and all the impersonators would be dead.
            ~ Johnny Carson

            Bungelow Ed's Photo Album http://techtalk.parts-express.com/album.php?u=8594

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

              Originally posted by donradick View Post
              Given your preferences, I'd build Paul Carmody's "Core 2" small towers, and build a Swope or OS MTM for the center. I really dig the Dayton RS drivers for "authority" and detail.
              http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/core-2-way
              how about your aurbacs with a front firing port? or maybe in a sealed alignment for the L/R in a tower with a side firing woofer crossed in the 90-100hz range?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

                Originally posted by michiganpat View Post
                how about your aurbacs with a front firing port? or maybe in a sealed alignment for the L/R in a tower with a side firing woofer crossed in the 90-100hz range?
                (Due to many requests) I am working on a MTM version of the Aurbacs, and a primary design goal is good horizontal center channel usage. But that won't be done for a while.

                Given the OP's goals, I felt good recommending one of Undef's Dayton RS designs. I just finished a TM project with a RS150 in .5 cubes and I'm really digging the SQ.

                I agree that if the OP likes OB, the Sunflowers should satisfy.

                I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                Tangband W6-sub

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

                  You've awful close to the speakers. i'd build something with really good driver integration at short distances. probably a Tannoy or KEF coaxial to start with.
                  :blues: Flat frequency response, a smooth sound power response free of resonance, careful driver-integration, and high dynamic range both upward and downward :blues:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

                    Great feedback, thanks to all!

                    So I have been through coaxs, non-matching centers, and phantom centers - and found them not to my liking. MTM's are certainly not a requirement, but after my single 4" FR experiments I found midrange "presence" lacking using smaller drivers.

                    I do think I would like the RS180, which is why I thought about the Amiga's (the Core's predecessor, also I already have the DX25 tweeters). Three smaller (i.e. sealed) cabinets for LCR. I thought about towers for LR, and sealed for the center, but wonder about subwoofer integration with a mix of ported and sealed mains? Unfounded?

                    I like the idea of side-firing subs integrated into the mains, along with third/fourth sub(s), as a bass solution.

                    A very strange coincidence the Sunflowers being mentioned! I was almost set to build them, but wanted a matching center (...hence the main reason for this thread). I had asked the designer about separating the MTM/woofer box vertically (MTM perched up on the TV, bass box below). My thinking was since they cross low at ~225Hz with shallow slopes, it might work, but was not suggested. I am still thinking about gambling on it though :D, since my current OB's integrate fine at a 200Hz crossover (and also at the listening position 2 metres away). What do you guys think?

                    Linky to OSMMTMM:
                    http://sites.google.com/site/undefin...bipolewhatwhen

                    Lots of great thinking and ideas, thanks again!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

                      I think you'd be VERY happy with the Sunflowers. This center channel should integrate nicely, since it's mostly Dayton RS drivers:
                      http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=19887

                      As noobs to DIY, we (myself included) tend to obsess quite a bit over various designs, quite rightly not wanting to waste our money and time. Truth be told, almost all of the respected DIY designs have such a high sound quality, that once we plug 'em in and turn them on, it's an OMG experience that we are totally hooked.

                      I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                      "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                      High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                      SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                      My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                      Tangband W6-sub

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

                        Originally posted by donradick View Post
                        As noobs to DIY, we (myself included) tend to obsess quite a bit over various designs, quite rightly not wanting to waste our money and time. Truth be told, almost all of the respected DIY designs have such a high sound quality, that once we plug 'em in and turn them on, it's an OMG experience that we are totally hooked.
                        True true.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

                          Originally posted by donradick View Post
                          As noobs to DIY, we (myself included) tend to obsess quite a bit over various designs, quite rightly not wanting to waste our money and time. Truth be told, almost all of the respected DIY designs have such a high sound quality, that once we plug 'em in and turn them on, it's an OMG experience that we are totally hooked.
                          I would have to agree with you. I used Erich's OS MT and loved the sound of them that i had to build something else. Im in the process of building Paul's ZX spectrum and his OS center channel.

                          I cant wait to finish these projects i know that they will sound amazing together.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

                            the Ansonica sounds like a perfect match. Probably wouldn't need a sub.

                            The family of Dayton RS based designs I've done also may have matches. The Garnacha or one if the khans...

                            So many other excellent choices too.
                            diVine Audio

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: If this were your room, what would you build ???

                              Originally posted by cjd View Post
                              the Ansonica sounds like a perfect match. Probably wouldn't need a sub.
                              Ah finally some confirmation a true full range setup without subs could work fine. I can deal with larger mains in my room, but spreading a few properly located subs around could eat into working/egress space rapidly.

                              The Ansonica and the matching surrounds have always appealed (that Anarchy looks like a sweet driver). But with no matching horizontal center .... :( .

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