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Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

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  • Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    This is the trouble that Swiss manufacturer Goldmund goes through to brace their monitors and bass modules. All of their bass modules are of an isobaric design. All of the cabinets and bracing systems are made out of metal. What do you guys think? Are these the ultimate cabinets? Or a wasted effort?
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

    And a few more pictures
    Attached Files

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    • #3
      Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

      Far from ultimate, IMO. Shelf/Rib braces >>>>> dowel-style braces

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      • #4
        Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

        My next cabinet is going to consist of 1/2" BB or MDF, with 1/2 to 5/8" of poured microsil non-shrink grout, with 3/4" dowel braces spaced minimum 8" OC side to side, top to bottom, and front to back. The microsil grout is about 60 to 80 MPa strength. It's self leveling and easy to work with. Stronger than concrete, without the gravel :D

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        • #5
          Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

          "All that trouble" and they still rate the FR of their Epilogue systems @ +/- 10db.

          They can stick their $300k speakers (and metal braces) up their rear ends....Oooo...all metal construction :eek:....that's gonna leave a mark.
          Bryan K.

          Midwest Audio Club

          Speedster | Sub AttachÚ | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO▄GAR, COUGAR II and CO▄GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

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          • #6
            Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

            Hmmmm... I'm not sure what you're reading, but they rate all of their speakers at -3dB except for the full system. Which is rated at -10dB to show that it has a 10Hz output. If you think 10Hz at -10dB is bad, you've lost your mind :(

            Not that I care, but they actually spec phenomenal. This has nothing to do with a +/- dB rating.

            http://goldmund.com/products/epilogue_full_system

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            • #7
              Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

              All that metal, expense, and FUGLY, to boot. Ultimate? Nah.

              If you're going to the trouble to build a custom metal enclosure to make it well braced, and then completely ignore baffle diffraction, simply means they really don't know all there is to creating an "ultimate" enclosure.

              Now THIS is much closer to "ultimate" and it's not even metal.

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              • #8
                Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

                I can squeak out a -10db brown note after too much cheap Tex-Mex and that's with minimal bracing.
                Bryan K.

                Midwest Audio Club

                Speedster | Sub AttachÚ | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO▄GAR, COUGAR II and CO▄GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

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                • #9
                  Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

                  When I think of cabinet bracing and cabinet that is good I think of
                  these:
                  http://magico.net/Company/index.php
                  and these:
                  http://rockporttechnologies.com/
                  and of course B&W matric bracing.

                  NOT the goldmunds.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

                    Those Goldmunds look to me like they're made w/ 1/2" thick aluminum. Even w/ minimal bracing those would be sturdier than any amount of wood. I'm definitely far from any kind of professional in the speaker industry but I do know wood and I do know a bit about steel (or aluminum). They are fugly though and if I had $300k to light on fire, I don't think I'd buy those
                    "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                    "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

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                    • #11
                      Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

                      Pete, I totally understand where you're coming from. I have also questioned Goldmund's decision not to round the baffle edges, or flush mount the drivers (for that price!). They don't even bother to flush mount the tweeter on their lower end (relatively speaking) speakers. Although to be fair, the drivers are definitely flush mounted on the Epilogue 1 speakers and in addition, the tweeter has a thick diffraction felt around it. In their Epilogue 1 Signature speakers, Goldmund also flush mounts both the tweeter and the woofer and in addition places a waveguide over the tweeter (ScanSpeak). So you really cannot fault them there.

                      Now, I personally own a pair of the Goldmund Logos1 monitors (Vifa DX25TG05-04 and Peerless 830875). And I have also made an exact replica of them, complete in metal, with the same dimensions, crossover, and parts. Ignore the date in front of the speaker/picture, I had to prove to someone on another forum that I actually owned the speakers.

                      As you can see, neither drivers are flush mounted, nor are the baffle edges rounded. Yet, they measure a flat +/-1.5dB (in my room, gated) and even better in the tweeter's region. It's strange, I know. But they really know what they're doing and back up their design choices with real life measurements and science.

                      P.S. The Goldmund speakers use a well braced enclosure made out of 1cm thick bar stock aluminum (for their budget line). And they increase the baffle's thickness to 2cm for the reference Epilogue system. No MDF, plywood, etc. enclosure, regardless on how well it's braced, will even come close to these cabinets.

                      Now Magico is a different story...
                      Attached Files

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                      • #12
                        Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

                        As much as I am going to regret throwing the troll some kibble - it is really, really, really easy to get flat on-axis measurements regardless of baffle geometry. It can be done with $5 woofers and tweeters. It can be done with any driver arrangement and crossover topology you desire.

                        Take some off-axis measurements, and then figure out why not paying attention to diffraction is, to use your choice of phrasing, an "epic fail".

                        The goldmund probably uses PCB's though.
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                        • #13
                          Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

                          Johnny, funny you should mention the PCBs. Goldmund actually uses a point to point wired/soldered crossover, all covered with a 3M 6" diameter heatshrink tube! The tweeter's and the woofer's crossovers are separated. This is certainly epic fail for the price.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

                            Originally posted by Pete Schumacher « View Post
                            All that metal, expense, and FUGLY, to boot. Ultimate? Nah.

                            If you're going to the trouble to build a custom metal enclosure to make it well braced, and then completely ignore baffle diffraction, simply means they really don't know all there is to creating an "ultimate" enclosure.

                            Now THIS is much closer to "ultimate" and it's not even metal.

                            Wait, did he replace the C-Quenze with an Illuminator? Or is that just a prototype?
                            :blues: Flat frequency response, a smooth sound power response free of resonance, careful driver-integration, and high dynamic range both upward and downward :blues:

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                            • #15
                              Re: Extreme Cabinet Bracing! What Do You Think?

                              +1 for the Illiuminators, no doubt.

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