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Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

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  • Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    If you're getting a good tax refund this year and are in search of a high quality 'build' mini-monitor project, read on....

    About a year ago I became intrigued with a dated Stereophile review of what turned out to be the very popular Sonus Faber Extrema (SFE) loudspeaker. But it was Martin Colloms' preamble to the actual review that caught my attention. The crossover design, he explained, was extremely simple, but needed special drivers to be as successful as it eventually was. Just a resistor in series with the tweeter and two coils and no capacitor. At the time the xo design was called the "Sine-Cap". The design required a high wattage resistor and the production SFE sported a heat sink on the back of the cabinet. http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/915

    At the same time I discovered the Acoustic Reality series xo. It also had only 3 parts and again, no capacitor. http://arhifi.dk/store/product.php?id_product=22

    I decided to build (more correctly stated; assemble) two mini-monitors, one with the SFE xo and the other with the AR sxo so I could compare their measurements and sound. Each design resultd in a 1st order elect xo so I knew I needed to find some very good quality drivers that could handle the demands of those xo's. I eventually settled on a SS D2905/970000 tweeter and SS 15W/8530K 01 woofer mid which when coupled with a 1/2 cu. ft. vented box could easily get down to 40 hz. Not wanting to be bothered with constructing boxes, I decided on the attractive PE p/n 302-723 curved sided cherry 'finished' cabinets. The other critical consideration in the driver selection was that each had a relatively smooth extended FR.

    A BB drawing was created and when the cabinets arrived, I had 2 BB's professionally cut so each driver was flush mounted. Next, cabinets were assembled and drivers and wires from each were snaked out the back two holes that come pre-drilled in the cabinets. I set up my virtual xo box and started varying parts until each xo design measured and sounded quite nice. Sorry simmers; no PCD's to display. The xo's were arrived at totally empirically. Off axis response was also excellent (see link below)

    With the SFE design I still had the problem of dealing with the tweeter's series wired resistor and its power challenges and inherent heat dissipation. Then it hit me. I needed to install a vent (ended up 2" dia. X 9" long PE p/n 260-387). So, locating the resistor near the vent's internal mouth would naturally cool it by the air flow thru the vent. I decided on locating it high up on the back side behind the tweeter and selected Mundorf M-resist 20W resistor. They come with a convenient 1/4 in hole thru their center. I cut some 1/4 inch wood doweling and installed two pre-fabed wooden 'nests' on the inside cabinet sides to rest the dowel in a position that suspended the resitor right over the end of the vent tube.

    High quality coils were selected. A 3.0 mH, 15 ga. air coil for the woofer/mid and 14 ga. copper foil coils for the tweeter parallel coil. Being concerned about tweeter protection in the event of a DC surge, I decided to add a totally optional high value cap in series with the tweeter and settled on a 500 uF Bennic which didn't impact the already finalized xo topologies.

    After some extended listening with each xo in my somewhat reverbarent listening room, I decided on the SFE xo with it's small BBC dip response using 15 ohms for the series resistor. If you want a flatter response, you can try a 10 ohm resistor in place of the 15 ohm shown on the schematic. I haven't had much luck with it. Evidently, the 5 ohm reduction in series resistance is just enough to bring on ringing.

    In the meantime my wife saw the finished speakers and said "your keeping those aren't you?" :D So, they now reside in our living room where no speaker system has sat for many years since we first got married and I owned a HK compact stereo. Bass extension with these woofer mids in these vented cabs is surprisingly low and articulate. Reviews from fellow audio society members who've visited for extended listening sessions have been very positive.

    I decided to call these speakers the Intimates because they aren't designed for regular 95+ dB listening. They perform best with acoustic music and vocals from smaller groups. I have them on 26 inch high solid cherry stands located about 1 ft from the wall to take advantage of the vent's reflected output. Being a hugh fan of classical music, I also listen to symphonies with them as well. They hold their own, but obviously don't have the big, complimentary symphony sound you'd get from a much larger multi-driver speaker system.

    Below are a couple of teaser pics of the speakers and some measurements which some of you may have seen posted in other threads. Visit here for more detail pics of the internals, BB dwg and xo schematics. http://s1219.photobucket.com/albums/...ct%20pictures/










    ADd a xsim model of the above design.
    Last edited by carlspeak; 10-12-2015, 07:51 AM. Reason: Added 10 ohm resistor option

  • carlspeak
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    I am not narrowing the date yet. Got to do a couple of projects for PE and was hoping to let em rip on next NY/NJ DIY.
    The weather is going to start getting bad soon, so may be after New Years?
    Feb/March something?
    Belated congratulations to you for making the PE projects team. I hope things work out for all you guys to your satisfaction and look forward to your creations.

    Leave a comment:


  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by Face View Post
    Late March, early April so snow isn't a concern?
    Oh Mike. Very rude of me, but Congratulations!
    I've been so busy with the work that I spaced. Apologies.
    April/March sounds good.

    Leave a comment:


  • Face
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    I am not narrowing the date yet. Got to do a couple of projects for PE and was hoping to let em rip on next NY/NJ DIY.
    The weather is going to start getting bad soon, so may be after New Years?
    Feb/March something?
    Late March, early April so snow isn't a concern?

    Leave a comment:


  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by Squidspeak View Post
    C'mon Carl, bring them to Brooklyn. I would really like to hear the
    Mundorf's, the only other forum member to say they heard them was CraigK. He gave them good remarks, not sure if it was a DIY design or
    commercial. Roman are you narrowing down a date for DIY NY/NJ ?
    I am not narrowing the date yet. Got to do a couple of projects for PE and was hoping to let em rip on next NY/NJ DIY.
    The weather is going to start getting bad soon, so may be after New Years?
    Feb/March something?

    Leave a comment:


  • Squidspeak
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by carlspeak View Post
    Depending on the date of the DIY event, I might be talked into shipping them to Roman if someone prepaid the cost. However, I've been without them now for quite some time and miss them a lot. So, when they do eventually get back to me, I won't be in a hurry to part with them.
    Someone prepays the cost to ship them to Romans shop , this seems to be the opposite of what DIY get togethers
    are about. Hold onto them Carl until I send you the pre-paid shipping docs.

    Leave a comment:


  • carlspeak
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Depending on the date of the DIY event, I might be talked into shipping them to Roman if someone prepaid the cost. However, I've been without them now for quite some time and miss them a lot. So, when they do eventually get back to me, I won't be in a hurry to part with them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Squidspeak
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by carlspeak View Post
    The 'challenge' is an interesting one, but I'll take a pass on making the arduous drive (for me at least) to Brooklyn. Go ahead and build your speakers. I will be interested to see how they measure and fare at your next DIY NY/NJ event. Am I the only DIY'r who's implemented a Mundorf AMT into a TW design??????
    C'mon Carl, bring them to Brooklyn. I would really like to hear the
    Mundorf's, the only other forum member to say they heard them was CraigK. He gave them good remarks, not sure if it was a DIY design or
    commercial. Roman are you narrowing down a date for DIY NY/NJ ?

    Leave a comment:


  • carlspeak
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    no, no. I will build with Satori and Viawave. You already have Intimates with Mundorf AMT and Revelator.
    Yes, Viawave is the Russian ribbon.
    The 'challenge' is an interesting one, but I'll take a pass on making the arduous drive (for me at least) to Brooklyn. Go ahead and build your speakers. I will be interested to see how they measure and fare at your next DIY NY/NJ event. Am I the only DIY'r who's implemented a Mundorf AMT into a TW design??????

    Leave a comment:


  • carlspeak
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by DanP View Post
    Hey Carl,

    Maybe I'm missing something, but in the xsim schematic in the original post, it looks like the system impedance would be whatever the DC resistance of the 0.33mH inductor is, which I'm guessing is extremely low. Am I seeing that right?

    Dan
    Good catch Dan. I made that schematic to improve upon the hand drawn one at my photobucket link. The hand drawn schematic has the resistor before the shunted coil. When that was done, the design had a 15 ohm resistor which eventually changed to a 10 after many listening hours. It was done soon after learning how to use xsim. Look at the simm'd impedance plot! :eek:
    which I evidently didn't pay attention to. That schematic is on my old computer, so I'll have to recreate it on my new one and replace the one in error if I ever find the time since NO ONE seems to have built my initial design nor probably ever will.
    Last edited by carlspeak; 10-12-2015, 09:33 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pete Basel
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by DanP View Post
    Hey Carl,

    Maybe I'm missing something, but in the xsim schematic in the original post, it looks like the system impedance would be whatever the DC resistance of the 0.33mH inductor is, which I'm guessing is extremely low. Am I seeing that right?

    Dan
    You are correct, seems that the inductor should be on the other side of the 10 ohm resistor
    across the tweeter. It is an RL tweeter crossover.

    Leave a comment:


  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by carlspeak View Post
    Roman, are you asking me to build with the drivers you listed? Or is that what you are building? Is the Viawave the Russian tweeter?
    no, no. I will build with Satori and Viawave. You already have Intimates with Mundorf AMT and Revelator.
    Yes, Viawave is the Russian ribbon.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanP
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Hey Carl,

    Maybe I'm missing something, but in the xsim schematic in the original post, it looks like the system impedance would be whatever the DC resistance of the 0.33mH inductor is, which I'm guessing is extremely low. Am I seeing that right?

    Dan

    Leave a comment:


  • carlspeak
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    Hi Carl.
    Are you up for a bit of challenge? I am thinking of a shootout for the next NY DIY. Looking to build a 5.5" Satori/Viawave combo. Would be in the same weight category as your Intimates.
    Let me know if you are game.
    Roman, are you asking me to build with the drivers you listed? Or is that what you are building? Is the Viawave the Russian tweeter?

    Leave a comment:


  • kenny_k
    replied
    Re: Introducing the "INTIMATES" (high WAF & quality sound)

    I might come up with a 6.5 Satori/Viaware. We should make this a shootout. I wonder if Face still has those RAALs? Maybe Mike Z will use his?

    Leave a comment:

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