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  • "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

    Well, now that it's all over and done for another year, it's time to reflect on what happened, who got some 'mentions', and how things sounded or went.

    I'd like to thank Rory for the front end, Matt for the Crowns, Bryan for the pictures/tweeting/video conferencing, Mark and Joel at Meniscus and all the other sponsors for the support of this little shindig, as well as everyone who attended.

    As a round out of people, it came to 39 total, of which 4 were women. It seems as though they're starting to hear what we hear doesn't it? ;) 17 no-shows. But- 300+ people joined in on the web via the video-conferencing Bryan set up, even asking for song requests.

    I'll base my viewpoint from the outside door to the back of the building that was open for a good majority of the event....
    Unfortunately I'm having issues getting connection to Bryan's photobucket pages, so I'll update later with photos of mine or someone else's.

    The table immediately to my left upon entry is the door prize table, chock full of enticing promo-schwag. (I ended up with a DTA-100a amp, BTW.) The next table had the front end on it, consisting of the CD player, preamp, and a Majik Buss Rev 2 door prize from Pi Audio.

    In the front left corner was Bryan Keane's Not-so-Rat's, and one of Dan's 'TBD' creations.
    The NSR's were evenly balanced, and sounded quite good. Due to the nicely done poplar cabs, I didn't let them enter the Rat-Rocker arena. For the $240 Bryan had in these, I would be picking nits to say what was a bit off. I was quite surprised.
    Dan's 'TBD', IMO, stole this show with something that could easily sell commercially. Aesthetic content was up there with Marten, Coltrane, and the Kharma Exquisites. The clear-acrylic Pellegrene waveguides really made them stand out. The Transducer Labs tweeters I feel sounded very clean and articulate, the BG Neo10 had resolution that needs to be heard at the $170 price, and the TC woofers were obviously capable. The mid was in an open-back scenario, but I didn't feel it was as inaccurate as some other open-back mids in terms of pinpoint definition. When the MTMW version of this hits- lookout! I propose 'Echelon' and 'Echelon Fortissimo' for names.

    My wooferless 'Stances' set on the table first along the front wall, awaiting freshly ordered replacements due to a released spider/former glue-joint at the mercy of Genesis' 'In the Air Tonight' in an uncompressed Mobile-Fidelity release before 9am Friday morning. We received the replacements Saturday and about 3pm installed the new units for demo. Jeff said it's "one of the best little speakers I've heard in a long long time.", and others were pleasantly surprised or happy with the sound of them as well. It uses the RS125-4 and the Beston RT003C in a very-dead kitty-litter filled box.

    Matt brought his 'Wolfimus 7' pair in late Saturday, but unfortunately they were not auditioned. Highly modded xover, TB 25-302S tweeter, and added damping make these what they are.
    Next on the floor in front was the Gator case Matt had his Crowns and a Furman in for the show. That's a difficult piece to move around!

    Dan's 'TBD' right channel set on the front right corner along with the table for nametags and box of door-prize 'hat'.

    On the tables on the right wall were lots of projects. First one had my 'Trichotomys', 'Francium' MT, Mark65's 'Deullati', Bryan Keane's PC 'Speedster', and George's 'Stomy 2.1'.

    I think this is a better sounding Trike than heard prior, as I fiddled with the xover a smidge. However- I may have a small rub on one of the D5G woofers at higher output levels. I'll have to investigate- maybe rotate the mounting if the suspension is giving a little. Still a bizarre cabinet from yours truly.

    Francium MT's did not play on Saturday due to time constraints, but those that heard it Friday thought it was one of the best that day. Just a hunch-xover on the woofer, a maligned vented cabinet, and an adapted Dayton 3kHz xover at this point. These will eventually be a TMWW floorstander. Focal 416J/Visaton MHT12.

    Mark's 'Deullati' (by Soundslike Construction firms) were as usual- a great sound at a miniscule price. DA115/BC25 MTM that measures quite flat and sounds balanced. The woofers do bass well, but tend to sound a tad rubbery, likely into the upper 40's; while the tweeter is smooth and silky though seemingly without total top-end extension or air. I wouldn't hesitate to build a pair if the price is right, as the integration is good. Nicely done.

    'PC Speedster', as the third time I've heard these, I still think they are a bit thick in the midbass and a little bloated down low. That said- they boogie for a small monitor, and have enough crystalline treble to satisfy.

    Unfortunately George's 'Stormy 2.1' had to forfeit their spot due to a misconnection issue, and I'm blaming Kenny. That said- when I heard these in KY, they had the most stellar 3D imaging of anything I've experienced.

    Paul Carmody had his 2 raw speakers sitting on floor to the right of this table. His 'Boombox' and 'Boom Stick', both consisting of ND90's. Boombox was DTA-1 powered with a Lucy Carmody artistic finish, and the Boom Stick was a passive 1.5-way per end and to be used as a shelf in his garage. Neither were very objectionable.

    On the rear-right table, Chuck had his 'Domo', 'Decades', and 'Karma Indignia'. Avoiding discussion of finish on all three here, the Domo had bang/buck and WAF factor was high; the Decades will be discussed later; and the KI I found to be a little sssibilant in this rendition where it was not when I heard it before. The lacker on the Domo was the tweeter, IMO. The piezo on the Decade was almost nonexistant, but it was a Rat-Rocker entry.

    Mike had his 'Pipedream' speakers with RS28F/Silver Flute 7" in a big pipe and brake rotor for a base. I think these still need some work.

    DanP brought his skinny-Stix, which did quite well, and had a basic poly'd MDF finish except for the baffles. Looked good too! I like the FR88 now that I've heard it, the tweeter was decent, and the woofers seemed to rolloff a bit early- but gradually so. The MCM4"/DQ25 MTM and W5-704/ND20 were also his. Though I strongly dislike the DQ, that design was good except for the lower treble glare. The W5/ND20 had an apparent misconnection/hole in the xover area, or at least it sounded that way to me. They also rolled off early in the bass.

    Mike Jennens brought his 'XR Florians' which had the same sweet treble as the Deullati with the BC25, and solid bass from the W5-704 below. Apparently I helped in the formulation of these, but how eludes me at this moment. I liked them.

    Phil Bamberg brought his professionally made piano-black cabs with specially developed OEM drivers that resembled an Aluminum HDS and a DX25. He used Bryan's NSR bass section to augment them. I was standing next to Dave Pellegrene, and he said 'there's something not right with these'. I listened a bit, and noticed multiple harmonizing vocals just smeared together into a slurry mess. He agreed. I just totally found them unengaging, and so benign/neutral that they didn't sound realistic to me.

    Dave's 'Dragsters' revved up some nice sound from their small block 350 enclosures. Non-fatiguing, great bass, and substantial output potential really made these shine. A blown OX20 (visually, not mechanically) and a DA115 made a great blend for this in/as-piring builder.

    Matt P brought his 'Apaches' in their final form. D5G/9950/D8.8+ complemented each other well, even though the plate was up a tad too much and making them wubba-wubba a touch, and the tweeter seemed a bit hot in that room. Matt said they don't sound hot at home in his bedroom. I really liked the finish.

    On the table in the rear of the room, or on the floor adjacent...

    E Biddy (Eric Best) brought his Fostex FR's, and I was impressed! Contour network provided BSC and flatness, even though the bass and air were rolled off. I thought they were quite pleasant. Drivers are NLA, IIRC.

    Rory's 'Firestorms' in their final rendition I liked the most of them, and had everything to offer I hoped they would- even in the oily-painted cabs. W6-789/25-1719. There is a slight cabinet resonance, but it's minimal.

    Eric L (brkitup)'s 'RetroPassives' were considerably more sensitive than expected, but gave a very easy sound. Intended for the Garage, I think these are Living Room worthy, and worth a look. Even though the phenolic tweeter was a touch hot, they were still pleasant. I don't know what the woofer was.

    Jeff B brought the CSS XBL 'Triton' kit, and I liked it. The LD25X tweeter is a gem, and the VWR125 midbasses are extremely capable. The system is very cohesive, and nothing stood out as offensive. Up close, there was some midrange leakage from the slot, but further back it went away. Cost of entry here is not low, but it's well worth the ride.
    He also had the TP-Kairos that was exceptionally clean. Satori drivers utilized herein, They were just splendid. To give some comparison though- I like the Continuums more. ;)

    Don Bunce brought these cardboard box horns called 'Movers and Shakers', and I thought they sounded very good considering the looks and ingenuity. The Karlson flare was something I'd not experienced before, so it was neat to see how that actually worked.

    Back around the room and across the sales tables sit Paul K's 'Cavatina'. While I still think the mids are a bit congested, I have no other complaints about them. Fountek CD1.0/SS 10G/Usher 8945. Mini towers that are easy to carry.

    I don't think I missed any, but if I did I apologize.
    That's all for now- soon to come are the 'Mentions'....
    Wolf
    Last edited by Wolf; 04-21-2012, 06:29 PM. Reason: remembered 2 more...
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

  • #2
    Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

    Okay, there were 2 types of 'Mentions' for this event; Dishonorable, and Honorable.
    Dishonorable was for the Rat-Rocker class, and strictly in good fun. I had 12 written entries for these .
    Honorable sector was for everything else. I had 4 written entries for these, so the values are picked by few...:rolleyes:

    I'm going to list a 1st/2nd placing for the referred categories, and mind you, this is all in good fun!

    Dishonorable:
    Least woodwork; Movers & Shakers/Pipedreams
    Most Raw finish; Tie: Movers & Shakers with Boombox
    Lowest WAF; Movers & Shakers/ no other above 1 vote.
    Greatest Waste of Space; Movers & Shakers/Boomstick
    Biggest Potential for $; Retro-Passives/Bryan's NsR
    I wouldn't even put those in my garage; Decades/no other more than one vote.

    Honorable:
    Best woodworking; Dan 'TBD'/Cavatina
    Nicest finish; Dan 'TBD'/Cavatina
    Highest WAF; none more than 1 vote.
    Lowest WAF; none more than 1 vote.
    Great gift for someone; Deullati/none more than 1 vote.
    Biggest bang/$; Deullati/none more than 1 vote.
    WANT!!!; Dan 'TBD'/Triton kit

    There you go!
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

      Thanks for the detailed walk-through Wolf, I appreciate the time it took. I had to choose between: going to InDIYana or building the new Wavefront design, and how could I choose against speakerbuilding? (due to budget constraints). I hope it will be as good next year and I'll set aside a budget earlier to go
      Audio: Media PC -> Sabre ESS 9023 DAC -> Behringer EP2500 -> (insert speakers of the moment)
      Sites: Jupiter Audioworks - Flicker Stream - Proud Member of Midwest Audio Club

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

        Good write up Ben. I agree the KI's had more silibance and I'm not sure why either. Have to look into that. I also agree with you on the tweet of the domo's. I used em cause I had em.

        After some more tweaks, the decades sound better, but not great. These are going into a garage (not mine!), so I'm not doing anything more on them.

        Dans creations definetely stole the show. I know my friend mike fell in love with that BG mid. I'm hoping Dan gives us some more info on them.

        The room IMO is good, but maybe could use a bit of temporary treatment. I'm still on the low side of the learning curve for crossovers and tried to set mine a bit by ear in my living room. My mistake in not paying attention to the difference the room would make especially on the highs.

        Next year instead of trying to pull off so many builds, I'm going to concentrate on 1!!! or maybe 2:D

        I was impressed more than enough with the CSS kit and especially the Ld25X tweet. It really is super sweet and is in very high contention for my 3way build (with Jeff Bs help)

        Can't wait for next year!!
        https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

          Originally posted by Wolf View Post
          Jeff B brought the CSS XBL 'Triton' kit, and I liked it. The LD25X tweeter is a gem, and the VWR125 midbasses are extremely capable. The system is very cohesive, and nothing stood out as offensive. Up close, there was some midrange leakage from the slot, but further back it went away. Cost of entry here is not low, but it's well worth the ride.
          He also had the TP-Kairos that was exceptionally clean. Satori drivers utilized herein, They were just splendid. To give some comparison though- I like the Continuums more. ;)

          Wolf
          Thanks Ben. I know you've heard the Continuums a number of times and have a good feel for how they sound, but not hearing the two speakers in the same venue and close in time makes it pretty hard to compare. However, I am curious about this same thing. So, I am preparring to have a speaker shoot-out here at home between four speakers. I am going to evaluate the Continuums, the Kairos, the Tritons, and the Piccolos all running through the bi-amped system with active crossover and sub running. Yesterday in preparation for this I took on-axis measurements of each speaker with the same mic distance and amp setting so I could overlay them. Next I'll start switching them in an out and listening to a select group of songs.

          One of the things I did, was something I had intended to do all along, and that was to plug the ports on the Kairos. This took all of that cone flop out and they are still flat to around 52Hz (as opposed to about 39Hz vented). But the woofer is so compliant that it really does benefit from a sealed environment. For Ft Wayne, in the big room, I wanted to present them with more bass extension though, but for my sound-off with the active filter I went with sealed. With the listening I have done so far I already have a pretty good feel for how this is going to go, but we'll see. I know in measuring the Kairos look a bit different. It's interesting to see all of these other speakers with all of the typical phase roll and then this one measures with phase that pretty much follows a straight line. The Kairos are the flattest and most extended of the group as well.

          I need to get rolling because the Tritons are being sent to Texas for the Lone Star State audio show that takes place in a couple of weeks.
          Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hmmmmm....

            Originally posted by Wolf View Post
            Back around the room and across the sales tables sit Paul K's 'Cavatina'. While I still think the mids are a bit congested, I have no other complaints about them. Fountek CD1.0/SS 10G/Usher 8945. Mini towers that are easy to carry.
            Wolf
            From Jeff Bagby in the InDIYana Demo Discs thread also talking about my Cavatinas:
            "As a judge in Dayton, yours deserved to win their class, and yesterday I was reminded of how exquisite they are in the mids. People buying commercial speakers can spends tens of thousands of dollars and still not get better mids."
            ************************************************** ******
            It sure makes one wonder why/how people have such different opinions when listening to the same music in the same venue at the same time! Not complaining, just thought these different viewpoints were interesting.
            Paul

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

              Not having been there I can't say one way or another but just an idea about why two people would have differing opinions:

              In my case there is a specific frequency that just irritates me to no end! The closest example I can think of is whatever frequency a triangle makes when struck. It is close to being painful. So....no matter how good a speaker is overall, if it has an emphasis on that one frequency, I may not like it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

                Yes, something like you describe certainly is always possible. Sometimes, too, listeners will have pre-conceived opinions, positive and/or negative, on how a speaker should sound before hearing it, based on some knowledge about it, like what type or brand of capacitors were used in the crossover, the crossover's corner frequencies and/or slopes, what type or size the enclosure is, etc. Years ago, when I lived in California, a pair of fellow-employees, who happened to be long-term friends of each other, dropped in for a listening session. Not using their real names, Joe complained about hearing a room reflection at a particular frequency. Later, Bob told me, "Joe always hears that same reflection everywhere we go"!
                Paul

                Originally posted by johngalt47 View Post
                Not having been there I can't say one way or another but just an idea about why two people would have differing opinions:

                In my case there is a specific frequency that just irritates me to no end! The closest example I can think of is whatever frequency a triangle makes when struck. It is close to being painful. So....no matter how good a speaker is overall, if it has an emphasis on that one frequency, I may not like it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

                  What you're disliking about that highish frequency is distortion, probably IMD. I've heard it a lot on cheaper tweeters; always seems to happen when there's a lot of 7-12Khz content. Could be subharmonics.
                  I am trolling you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

                    Originally posted by Paul K. View Post
                    Sometimes, too, listeners will have pre-conceived opinions, positive and/or negative, on how a speaker should sound before hearing it, based on some knowledge about it, like what type or brand of capacitors were used in the crossover, the crossover's corner frequencies and/or slopes, what type or size the enclosure is, etc.
                    Truer words have never been spoken. This is why I rarely like to talk about what I'm bringing to an event beforehand--and also why I don't go into much details about crossover slopes or what brands of components I use. It gives people too much fodder to decide what they'll think about my design before they actually see or hear it.

                    Also, what I think is critically important to keep in mind is people's background, and what kind of music they like to listen to (and where they listen). A kid listening to MP3s on his earbuds will probably prefer a very different sounding speaker than a classical music lover who goes to see orchestras frequently.
                    Extreme examples, I know, but you know what I'm saying, right?
                    Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

                    Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
                    Twitter: @undefinition1

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

                      I certainly do know what you're saying about peoples' different backgrounds and musical preferences. I also don't talk about a new build before bringing it to an event, especially a competition-type of event, for the same reasons. Unfortunately at MWAF the judges seem to like to know some of these details prior to their listening, so it's not possible to withhold all of the details.
                      Paul

                      Originally posted by Paul Carmody View Post
                      Truer words have never been spoken. This is why I rarely like to talk about what I'm bringing to an event beforehand--and also why I don't go into much details about crossover slopes or what brands of components I use. It gives people too much fodder to decide what they'll think about my design before they actually see or hear it.

                      Also, what I think is critically important to keep in mind is people's background, and what kind of music they like to listen to (and where they listen). A kid listening to MP3s on his earbuds will probably prefer a very different sounding speaker than a classical music lover who goes to see orchestras frequently.
                      Extreme examples, I know, but you know what I'm saying, right?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

                        Originally posted by johngalt47 View Post
                        Not having been there I can't say one way or another but just an idea about why two people would have differing opinions:

                        In my case there is a specific frequency that just irritates me to no end! The closest example I can think of is whatever frequency a triangle makes when struck. It is close to being painful. So....no matter how good a speaker is overall, if it has an emphasis on that one frequency, I may not like it.
                        The frequency of my ex-wife's voice at maximum excursion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

                          Originally posted by maynardg View Post
                          the Frequency Of My Ex-wife's Voice At Maximum Excursion.
                          Hahahaahahhahahhahalolololollololol+10000000000000 000000!!!!!!!!!!
                          https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

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                          • #14
                            Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

                            Originally posted by maynardg View Post
                            The frequency of my ex-wife's voice at maximum excursion.

                            Oh, boy, me too!:D:D



                            Mark
                            You go your way, I'll go mine. I don't care if we get there on time.

                            ~Pink Floyd

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                            • #15
                              Re: "InDIYana 2012" Virtual Walkaround....

                              Did I miss the links to the pics?
                              John H

                              Synergy Horn, SLS-85, BMR-3L, Mini-TL, BR-2, Titan OB, B452, Udique, Vultus, Latus1, Seriatim, Aperivox,Pencil Tower

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