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  • dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

    if you were to build the ultimate speaker for music ,within reason leaning toward highend,what details,what drivers would you use and in what configuring =wmtmw,tmw,tmww,mtmw,mtmww ? i would think a raal tweeter for all applications , haven't heard anything better !
    donc

  • #2
    Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

    Originally posted by donc View Post
    if you were to build the ultimate speaker for music ,within reason leaning toward highend,what details,what drivers would you use and in what configuring =wmtmw,tmw,tmww,mtmw,mtmww ? i would think a raal tweeter for all applications , haven't heard anything better !
    donc
    If I'd heard the Mundorf AMT, and found it better, I'd use that, but-

    These tweeters apply:
    RAAL
    Visaton MHT12
    Aurum Cantus G2si or Fountek NeoCD3.0
    Transducer Labs N26
    Morel MDT33 (NLA)
    SS R2904/D2905----
    TB 25-1743S
    SS Air-Circ

    Mids:
    AC AC130F1
    Audax HM100 or HM130
    Morel MDM55/CAM558
    ATC 3" dome (never heard it but want to!)
    Focal 5k kevlar
    BG Neo10
    Excel W15
    SS 15W/8530K00
    PHL 1120
    ATD 7" titanium (Haven't heard it either.)
    Usher 9845 (NLA)

    (Sub)Woofers:
    SS 26W/8867T, 22W/8857T
    AE TD12H
    Dayton RSS265/RSS210
    Eminence Definimax 4012HO
    Peerless XLS/XXLS (SS 26W equivalent)
    Seas L26ROY (have not heard it.)

    I may be all wet, but I like what I heard from the ones I have.
    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

      Depends on whether you have quality dedicated subs, or want to include that extension into the mains. Extension into the 20s is mandatory for an "ultimate" system. There's plenty of music that uses those bottom octaves that systems reaching into the 30s just don't adequately reproduce. Now, if you never listen to that kind of music, well the target may be reset.

      I really think this pairing could be the basis for a true, high-end-within-reason driver selection.

      Vifa NE315 to 350Hz LR2 .54mH inductance
      Vifa NE149 to 2500Hz LR4 .08mH inductance !! :eek:
      Transducer Labs N26C or
      Aurum Cantus Aero Striction AST2560 or
      RAAL 70-10D

      The other day, we took a sweep of the NE225 near field, just to get an idea of the actual linear distortion, and at over 90dB@1m, with the mic about 6" from the woofer, the midrange distortion was below .1%, almost entirely 2nd order. It has the cleanest midrange distortion spectrum of any driver I've ever tested. It is up there with the Acoustic Elegance woofers in many respects. The motors on those Vifa neo units are very good.

      A system using those drivers has some jaw dropping potential. That woofer, in the right cabinet, will deliver into the upper 20s, and there's plenty of swept volume to pressurize the room. But the RSS315HF-4 would make a great alternative. Wolf can testify as to the quality of their reference subs being used as woofers. His Attitudes and my Byzantium both turned out very well, he using the 8" to more than double the cut off frequency I did for the 12". The Attitudes rendered vocals and instruments very clearly and cleanly, with the entire bass and lower midrange covered by a "sub."
      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

        ...

        Transducer Labs N26C...

        the RSS315HF-4 would make a great alternative. Wolf can testify as to the quality of their reference subs being used as woofers. His Attitudes and my Byzantium both turned out very well
        A few elements of my dream build are mentioned in Pete's quote as my dream build right now would be his Byzantium's with that Transducer Labs ceramic tweet as my mains. I've heard nothing but good things about how they sound now, but we ARE talking a dream build here...
        RYAN N.

        "Why do you have the stereo on while you're watching TV?" - "....Cause I like to party."

        RSS390HF Build - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=224998
        AviaTrix Build - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=230372
        Wolf's PC Speakers Build - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...84#post1838384
        Overnight Sensations MT Build - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ation-MT-build

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

          Probably something like a modular WWtmWW, where each W is in a removable chamber so I'm not stuck with a 500lb speaker. I'm thinking SS 7100 in a WG with a B&C 6.5" mid and HiVi 10.8's for the woofer array.
          http://jaysspeakerpage.weebly.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

            I take it that Accutons are not within reason.

            I'm really curious how the Vifa NE line compare to the Accutons. The B&G Neo line as well.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

              WTMW with:

              Transducer Labs N26
              Tang Band 75-1558SE
              (2) ScanSpeak Illuminator 18WU/4741T-00

              That should make for a slim tower that reaches pretty low. Also all of the drivers have pretty good distortion measurements. Cross anywhere from 600-1200Hz and 2500-3000Hz.

              Might sound even better with just an MTM using those woofers, but the power handling will be better this way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

                I would clone a Sony SS-AR!.
                https://dealersource.sel.sony.com/dsweb/p/ar1/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

                  My dreams are fairly modest. Its to actually get what I want to build next right

                  Each will have:
                  Dayton RS28F tweeters
                  Dayton RS150 woofer
                  2x Vifa 8" PL22WR09 drivers

                  I'd basically want nearly a sub/satellite setup but passive an in a single cabinet. I'd see if I could cross over the RS150/PL22 at 200Hz or a bit lower

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

                    For a wider room, probably something like

                    RAAL 70-20XR
                    BG Neo10 (assuming its polars are wide enough to match the 70-20XR, otherwise the Neo 8, maybe two with the second one rolled in later)

                    surrounded by four, maybe eight Scanspeak Illumintor 18WU, optimized and equalized for a cardioid pattern below the shroeder frequency down to 100hz.

                    Add in about eight TC Sounds LMS-5400s to handle whatevers below 100hz.
                    :blues: Flat frequency response, a smooth sound power response free of resonance, careful driver-integration, and high dynamic range both upward and downward :blues:

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

                      Originally posted by Paul Ebert View Post
                      I take it that Accutons are not within reason.

                      I'm really curious how the Vifa NE line compare to the Accutons. The B&G Neo line as well.
                      The Accutons in terms of midrange are in a class not many compare to. The price of admission is very steep however, and that makes it a less achievable goal along with their coinciding fragility. The delicacy and ability to reproduce midrange from that oxidized aluminum ceramic-powder-matrix concave cone is very realistic and wonderful, but I cannot ever spend those prices.

                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      http://photobucket.com/Wolf-Speakers_and_more

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

                        So is the Transducer Labs N26 an affordable close runner to the Raal ?
                        DonC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

                          Originally posted by donc View Post
                          So is the Transducer Labs N26 an affordable close runner to the Raal ?
                          DonC
                          Well, from this subjective viewpoint, a qualified yes.

                          The only shortcoming both Ryan and myself found with the MiniByzy was the lack of resolution presented by the RS28, either version. His reference is the RAAL, so it's a tough sell for any tweeter to attain some of that sonic character. He's auditioned every top end dome tweeter you can name. This is the first one that approaches that sound we're looking for. And based on the measured performance, a flat baffle implementation puts it in the same category as the 70-20XR in terms of low end limit. Both are comfortable with 1800Hz LR4.

                          More than either RS28, this tweeter simply is able to let you more clearly discern instruments and harmonic signatures in things like sax, trumpet, and even cello. What it gives up to the RAAL is perhaps best evaluated in cymbal reproduction. It's subtle, but there's just a bit more realism with the 70-20.

                          To say that I'd be ecstatic to upgrade my Byzantium with the N26C would be an understatement. I'm pretty sure Dan Neubecker is also pretty impressed with N26 in the Echelons.
                          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

                            I have not heard any of these so if someone knows something about then it would be nice to know :D. I am going to start with my dream system so here is my list:


                            Tweeter
                            SB Acoustics SB26STAC-C000-4 1" Textile Dome Tweeter <- odd I know but look at the response curve. Even at 30 degrees off access these look better than most of the expensive tweeters. These look almost like the N26 on the graph (sound probably quite different though).
                            or
                            Transducer Labs N26


                            Midrange:
                            Aurum Cantus AC165/50C2C 6-1/2"
                            or
                            Vifa NE180W-08 6-1/2
                            I was also looking at the SEAS Prestige a 5.5" because it has a very flat response and great cost. I want to run the same size mids and tweeters through the entire 5.1 system later on. So cost is kind of an issue but I figure I could build this over a few years.

                            Woofer:
                            4 of the ScanSpeak Classic 21W/8555-01, 8" Woofer <- has a bottom end of 19hz :eek:

                            So maybe not so much of dream high crazy cost for mids and tweeter if I go with the 5.5" SEAS, and the SB Acoustics. The charts for both of those are so flat though that they make for compelling choices.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: dream build-what configuration/drivers ?

                              Originally posted by donc View Post
                              if you were to build the ultimate speaker for music ,within reason leaning toward highend,what details,what drivers would you use and in what configuring =wmtmw,tmw,tmww,mtmw,mtmww ? i would think a raal tweeter for all applications , haven't heard anything better !
                              donc
                              There are those who have different interpretations of "within reason", and many who will claim you are not leaning towards "highend" until you have thirty thousand dollars worth of handmade, AlNiCo powered drivers.

                              Keeping in mind that most of us never even listen to music that is capable of taking advantage of any perceived illumination of detail, I would go the other route not mentioned here and just build or buy a bigass JBL pro system. I lack the room, the electronics, the music and the budget to tackle either a traditional uber-hifi build or a bigass pro-audio build so I will just keep doing what I do

                              That all being said, for a guy who spends 90+% of his listening time at 75-80db with bands like Cranberries, Jayhawks, Doug Paisley, Neutral Milk Hotel, Poison, Cinderella, Pearl Jam, Johnny Cash, and a host of other similar names - my builds are generally immensely satisfying and I really do not lust for much more.

                              Interesting to see the love for the TL tweeter. Looks like it is becoming the flavor of the week. Too bad they have not hired a designer to make a package deal that isn't so damn ugly ;)
                              Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                              Comment

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