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Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

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  • Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

    CABINET:DRIVERS:LISTENING IMPRESSIONS:VALUE PROPOSTION:
    Bryan K.

    Midwest Audio Club

    Speedster | Sub Attachť | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO‹GAR, COUGAR II and CO‹GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

  • #2
    Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

    Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
    CABINET:DRIVERS:LISTENING IMPRESSIONS:VALUE PROPOSTION:
    I'm very curious about those speakers. They seem like the steal of the year at $50!

    I wonder if they'll measure like these ones. http://www.stereophile.com/content/p...r-measurements
    Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
    2-2.5 Way:
    Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
    3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

      I am no scientist when it comes to measuring and I have nothing close to an optimal space to do so, however, since this will be a comparison to the Speedsters, the measurements should yield something of value.

      Testing methodology:
      Speaker on edge of table 30” from floor. Ceiling height 10 feet and nearest side boundaries at least 6 feet away. I took two sets of measurements using a quick sweep in TrueRTA, measured with a Cross Spectrum calibrated ECM8000. Both measurements on axis, mic lined up in between tweeter and woofer – 20” away and then 10” away. I also measured port response with the mic right at the port exit.

      BS21 - 20"


      Speedster - 20"


      BS21 - 10"


      Speedster - 10"


      20" comparison - BS21(green) - Speedster(purple)


      10" comparison - BS21(yellow) - Speedster(gold)


      BS21 - port


      Speedster - port


      Port comparison - BS21(blue) - Speedster (green)
      Bryan K.

      Midwest Audio Club

      Speedster | Sub Attachť | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO‹GAR, COUGAR II and CO‹GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

      Comment


      • #4
        Bryan K.

        Midwest Audio Club

        Speedster | Sub Attachť | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO‹GAR, COUGAR II and CO‹GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

          Plastic frame for woofer removed. Note the singular baffle brace and the small amount of poly-fill.


          Top half of cabinet, looking thru tweeter cutout. Note the 1.5” I.D. x 2.5” port.


          Crossover – double-sided on a PCB – 6 elements – uses a NPE and a poly cap, an air core and a steel core inductor and two 5-watt resistors.




          Some physical measurements of the cutouts, etc. (in inches on the caliper readout)
          Woofer:


          Tweeter (recess):


          Tweeter (cutout):


          Baffle thickness – 0.59” which equates to 15mm MDF.


          BS21 in pieces:
          Bryan K.

          Midwest Audio Club

          Speedster | Sub Attachť | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO‹GAR, COUGAR II and CO‹GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

            So it looks like the MCM 55-3870 will fit right in there. What tweeter?

            What do you think of this one..http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=264-804

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

              Whenever I measure speakers using RTA I get similar looking graphs to yours... it's interesting to see how your perceptions matched the measurements very closely.
              Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
              2-2.5 Way:
              Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
              3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

                I have to learn how to use TrueRTA better.....I don't do smoothing, gating, splicing, etc. And yes, I also noticed that the charts pretty much confirm my listening impressions. I was really happy to see that BTW, as I don't think I have very stellar ears for critical judgement.


                Originally posted by fjhuerta View Post
                Whenever I measure speakers using RTA I get similar looking graphs to yours... it's interesting to see how your perceptions matched the measurements very closely.
                Bryan K.

                Midwest Audio Club

                Speedster | Sub Attachť | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO‹GAR, COUGAR II and CO‹GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

                  I took the following measurements of my pair of SP-BS21's using ARTA several months ago. The on axis wasn't very pretty but that 10K dip and spike smooths out off axis.

                  On axis:



                  Off axis, 30 degrees:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

                    Stupid here. What I was reading with Audessey as a "bump" near 8Khz is really the dip at 9-10Khz. Duh, duh, duh, ah forget a plus in Audessey is ah minus in response, doh, doh, doh. The "BBC" dip looks like an artifact of the XO/driver spacing. It doesn't show the tweeter diffraction I would really have expected. Give me some T/S numbers and I'll sim the speaker/enclosures and if we get some measurements on the XO, we'll get seriously dangerous. A $25 speaker really worth spending time, effort and money on! Someone needs to call Zaph and warn him! I've simmed three possible MCM woofers in +/- 7L, and I'm not whelmed yet. Zaph's ZA14-8 woofer could be good medicine. It's about 139mm in outside diameter...decent numbers. I'll play with it.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

                      very nice... I haven't had time to play with mine yet :(

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

                        Originally posted by Whitneyville1 View Post
                        Zaph's ZA14-8 woofer could be good medicine. It's about 139mm in outside diameter...decent numbers. I'll play with it.
                        I have them. Let me know how they sim. The ZA14 might drop right in that cutout without any modification. For the 4" drivers I want to test, I'm going to have to cut trim rings. I don't know why I get myself into goofy projects like this. Simple stuff turns into a nightmare pretty quickly. :rolleyes:
                        Bryan K.

                        Midwest Audio Club

                        Speedster | Sub Attachť | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO‹GAR, COUGAR II and CO‹GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

                          the ND-105-4 might drop on to that 5.25" adapter plate

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                          • #14
                            Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

                            Originally posted by mintos View Post
                            the ND-105-4 might drop on to that 5.25" adapter plate
                            Yup....I thought about that too. I also happen to have several ND105-8's which will work perfectly. ;)

                            Keep the ideas rolling
                            Bryan K.

                            Midwest Audio Club

                            Speedster | Sub Attachť | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | CO‹GAR, COUGAR II and CO‹GAR JR | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR - measured/deconstructed/modded

                              Two caps, two Inductors, and a internal brace. These are way overbuilt for "best buy" level audiphiles,

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